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-   -   Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged) (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196482)

Onkel Neal 05-24-15 06:47 PM

Uh-oh :06:

Quote:

Nikos Voutsis, the interior minister, said that "this money will not be given and is not there to be given". The Greek state is due to hand over the money in four instalments in June, as part of its obligations under its 2011 bail-out.

http://www.afr.com/markets/debt-mark...0150524-gh8qf8

The downward spiral speeds up...

Oberon 05-24-15 07:48 PM

Meh, they'll just renegotiate and push back the deadlines.

The US government isn't the only one that can kick the can down the road. :03:

Jimbuna 05-25-15 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 2316030)
The downward spiral speeds up...

Careful you don't go starting a riot here :):03:

What I can't understand is why do the EU keep on extending the time period and amount of money owed?

Greece leaving the the EU or dropping the Euro would obviously have serious consequences for the EU initially but surely that is the only option remaining now.

My real sympathy lies with the Greeks, they are going to suffer because of the poor financial management of previous Greek governments.

Schroeder 05-25-15 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2316096)
My real sympathy lies with the Greeks, they are going to suffer because of the poor financial management of previous Greek governments.

They were the ones voting them in time and again. I don't know how true it is but talk has it that tax evasion and corruption are also very popular pastimes in Greece. So the problem wasn't just made by the politicians but by a large part of the population as well. I do not know the exact feared consequences of a "Grexit" but I think it's the only option to prevent a bottomless hole.

Jimbuna 05-25-15 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 2316110)
They were the ones voting them in time and again. I don't know how true it is but talk has it that tax evasion and corruption are also very popular pastimes in Greece. So the problem wasn't just made by the politicians but by a large part of the population as well. I do not know the exact feared consequences of a "Grexit" but I think it's the only option to prevent a bottomless hole.

Yes, there must be a lot of contributing factors of a greater and lesser extent as to the root causes. My expectation is that Greece will default and drop the Euro then possibly leave the EU....my concern is what the effect will have not only on the European financial markets but ultimately on the Greek population themselves.

How do you build a stable foundation, a new beginning on a history of defaulting on loans and a surplus of unpaid bills? How do you borrow and who would be willing to lend for the building blocks to such a new beginning?

I think that should the EU wipe out/write off the debt there would still be a lack of willingless for anyone to assist financially again.

The Greeks must feel like they are between a rock and a hard place....much like the UK felt at the end of the last Labour governments term of office but probably a thousand or more times worse.

I sincerely hope it all ends well for them.

Onkel Neal 05-25-15 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2316096)
Careful you don't go starting a riot here :):03:

What I can't understand is why do the EU keep on extending the time period and amount of money owed?

Greece leaving the the EU or dropping the Euro would obviously have serious consequences for the EU initially but surely that is the only option remaining now.

My real sympathy lies with the Greeks, they are going to suffer because of the poor financial management of previous Greek governments.

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand, Greece cannot pay $1 billion to the EU, so they won't get $7 billion in bailout money...? Just get a payday loan, or something.

Oberon 06-26-15 06:05 PM

Using game theory to try to explain Greeces plans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33254857

Meanwhile, the Greek PM has announced that a referendum will take place on whether to accept the terms of the bailout plan presented.
This is a shrewd and smart move by Tsipras, it will give the people of Greece the choice of what direction they want to go in. If they refuse it, they will all share (well...mostly all) the consequences, and likewise if they accept it. Tsipras is giving the Greek people a voice and at the same time absolving himself of blame for what is going to happen after the vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33296839

Jimbuna 06-27-15 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 2324465)
Using game theory to try to explain Greeces plans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33254857

Meanwhile, the Greek PM has announced that a referendum will take place on whether to accept the terms of the bailout plan presented.
This is a shrewd and smart move by Tsipras, it will give the people of Greece the choice of what direction they want to go in. If they refuse it, they will all share (well...mostly all) the consequences, and likewise if they accept it. Tsipras is giving the Greek people a voice and at the same time absolving himself of blame for what is going to happen after the vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33296839

Spot on......Tsipras have more or less conned the Greek population by promising outcomes they knew were probably impossible to achieve.

The only way out now is for the return of the Drachma and hopefully an eventual return to normality but that will still be a painful experience initially seeing as how Greece will have no funds to purchase imports as well as an almost total dependency on tourism income.

One question though....what happens to the money owed if they leave the EU and drop the Euro?

Either way, I wish the Greek people well seeing as it was the mismanagement of successive Greek governments by enlarge that caused this situation.

em2nought 06-27-15 06:47 PM

I'm hoping to get a lovely cliff side villa on Crete with a view overlooking the Mediterranean for the price of a Detroit hovel. :D Maybe I'll buy a gyro stand too!

Torplexed 06-28-15 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2324543)
Spot on......Tsipras have more or less conned the Greek population by promising outcomes they knew were probably impossible to achieve.

Tsipras can claim it was all Europe’s fault for not letting Greeks decide, when in fact, by calling the referendum, he made the decision for them.

Now, the ECB is ending emergency lending to Greek banks. Monday is expected to be a banking holiday in Greece, pending introduction of capital controls. It'll be a busy time for Greek bankcards today.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33303105

Looks to be a tumultuous time ahead in the Eurozone.

Oberon 06-28-15 07:26 AM

Yes, it's going to be a very...interesting...week for Greece and the finance ministers of the Eurozone.

ikalugin 06-28-15 07:31 AM

I wonder if Putin would show up and save the day?

Oberon 06-28-15 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin (Post 2324756)
I wonder if Putin would show up and save the day?

It's entirely possible, although whether Putin is able to assist with the resources he has available at this point in time is debatable. Russia has certainly made interested noises towards Greece though.

Torplexed 06-28-15 07:59 AM

Did someone blink? The ECB suddenly reverses course:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33304674

Quote:

The European Central Bank says it will maintain its emergency funding of Greek banks at the level agreed on Friday.
The ECB said that it stood ready to review the decision on its Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) and would work closely with the Bank of Greece.
BBC economics editor Robert Peston says the ECB is not providing any additional aid to Greece, which will lead to huge pressure for capital controls.
Greek banks depend on ELA, and cutting it could push Greece out of the euro.

Betonov 06-28-15 08:15 AM

If NATO wants to destroy Russia, we should give them Greece.
In 10 years they'd drain Moscow


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