SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - US Politics Thread 2021-24

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On several occasion I have read following on Twitter-

Its origine is from Elon Musk
"why hasn’t the FBI raided anyone on Epstein’s list."

I thought they had raided some of the people on this list.

This was an off topic detour
Back to discuss US politics- Gestern, Heute, Morgen

Markus

Less "Grand" and more Orange in "GOP". The destruction continues. Long live the autocrats!

Quote:

Voters in the US state of Wyoming have ousted congresswoman Liz Cheney, a rare Republican critic of former President Donald Trump, in a primary election.

She has been trounced by a relative political newcomer and Trump-backed candidate, Harriet Hageman.

Ms Cheney, 56, was one of only two members of her party to join the congressional committee investigating Mr Trump's attempts to cling to power.

The three-term congresswoman was once a rising Republican star.

Conceding defeat, Ms Cheney signalled that this was the beginning of a new chapter of her political career. "Our work is far from over," she told a group of her supporters, including her father, former Vice-President Dick Cheney.

All 10 Republicans who voted to impeach Mr Trump after his supporters attacked the US Capitol building in January last year have been targeted in a scorched-earth campaign of revenge.

So far, four have retired, and now four have been defeated by his chosen candidates in primary ballots in the states of Wyoming, Washington, Michigan and South Carolina.

Only two have successfully maintained their places on the Republican ticket for re-election.

Ms Cheney was the last of the 10 to face the Trumpian assault.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62569056

Talk about the US Civil War :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2823380)

Less "Grand" and more Orange in "GOP". The destruction continues. Long live the autocrats!

I know what you mean about those darn autocrats they do seem to be everywhere these days, huh.

Former German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder will remain a member of the ruling Social Democrats (SPD), the party said Monday, finding his ties with Vladimir Putin did not breach its rules.

https://bilder.t-online.de/b/54/59/7...imir-putin.jpg

At least the voters in the Wyoming primary showed you Germans and the rest of the world they had a choice and their opinions mattered. Baltic States, Poland, Ukraine getting rid of their parasites and symbols of Russian oppression. Germany keeps their’s.

Oh boy I tell ya I’m gonna have another great night sleep. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2823397)

Talk about the US Civil War :o

Civil war? It’s Wyoming, I don’t live there doesn’t bother me a bit who they send as their represenative. Only civil war going on is in peoples pants.:haha: (Whatever that means) :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly (Post 2823313)

The records were stored in Hoffman Estates temporarely from where they where then moved to NARA's own facilities when Obama decided to not build a Presidential Library but instead go with the digitization route. Paragraph 7 simply states that Obama is financially supporting NARA in moving the documents. The records remained in NARA's ownership all the way through.

Is that really the best you can do? Pretend the 2018 Legal Agreement does not say what it actually says in plain language and then post irrelevant links to PR material?

I will post again the text to article 7 of the 2018 Legal Agreement:

Quote:

7. The Obama Foundation agrees to transfer up to ...[$3,300,000]... to support the move of classified and unclassified Obama Presidential records and artifacts from Hoffman Estates to NARA-controlled facilities that conform to the agency's archival storage standards for such records and artifacts, and for the modification of such spaces.

https://www.obama.org/wp-content/upl...F-NARA-LOI.pdf

The language is black and white and unambiguous. There were classified douments held by the Obama Foundation in the Hoffman Estates in 2018 and the Hoffman Estates was not a NARA-controlled facility that conforms to the agency's archival storage standards for such records.

Now in an objective Court of Law, there is something known as the hierarchy of evidence:

-On the one hand, you have a legal agreement drafted in 2018 which makes it clear that Obama was holding classified documents in potential violation of the presidential Records Act.

-On the other hand you have a "cover your ass" bureaucratic press release written by NARA when it is the middle of a potential political scandal.

The problem with Rabid Anti-Trumpers, like you, is that they are so blinded by their hatred of Trump that they can no longer look at facts objectively. They just latch on to whatever story they think will potentially hurt Trump even though it is as flimsy as a house of cards.

So when the question came up if Trump is being treated differenty from other ex-Presidents, NARA conveniently issues a PR docmunent and all the MSM latched on to it: "Oh Look, a shiny object! case closed! no need to investigate further!"

Now if these were more normal political times, you might expect journalists to dig a little deeper and ask some simple questions like:

-WHO actually wrote the NARA press release?;
-Was the author of the NARA press release aware of the 2018 Legal Agreement?;
-Can NARA explain the discrepancy between what they are saying now and what was in the 2018 Legal Agreeement?;

So again we are back to the same question as before, why is Trump deing treated differently than Obama?

You can be sure all these questions and more will be asked in 2023 when NARA officials are hauled in front of congressional committees to answer them under oath.

Depending on where a person stands they either support or goes against Trump. However-We may discuss until judgement day whether he's not guilty or guilty, 'cause at the bottom line it's the American law who has the last word in this adventure.

What kind of sentence he will get none of us know-It can go from free(not guilty) to max guilt = 10 years prison.

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 2823421)

I will post again the text to article 7 of the 2018 Legal Agreement:
https://www.obama.org/wp-content/upl...F-NARA-LOI.pdf

The language is black and white and unambiguous.

As you yourself said the language is chosen carefully. So, what does paragraph 7 say? Without any assumptions?

It says that the Obama Foundation is funding the transfer of documents and artifacts from one place to another, and specifies that the new place has to be up to NARAs standards. It says nothing about the standards of the facility located in Hoffman Estates. You are just making assumptions based on what you want it to say.

Quote:

So when the question came up if Trump is being treated differenty from other ex-Presidents, NARA conveniently issues a PR docmunent and all the MSM latched on to it: "Oh Look, a shiny object! case closed! no need to investigate further!"

My links are all from 2016-2017. I intentionally dug up stuff from before Trump's current legal troubles so you couldn't call them biased. Yet here we are...

What I get from this pissing contest is that Obama had private possession of hard copies of classified presidential documents for two years before finally turning them over to NARA in 2018.

He was lucky the letter agencies weren't out to get him or he'd have gotten the Trump treatment, if he wasn't a Democrat that is...

Is Trump being treated different because he's...Trump ?

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2823508)

Is Trump being treated different because he's...Trump ?

Markus

Pretty much.

BTW I found out the reason that Trump has two passports. The second one is a diplomatic passport issued to all presidents and senior admin officials.

Quote:

The U.S. government issues several different types of passports to its citizens. Most U.S. passports fall under the category of “fee passports,” which are blue and also known as “regular” or “tourist” passports. They are valid for 10 years when issued to people 16 years of age and older, or five years when issued to people under 16.

Special issuance passports are issued to U.S. government officials, like the president, and sometimes their family members. These passports may also be issued to third-party contractors working for the U.S. government “in limited circumstances,” the U.S. Department of State says. The passports are valid for up to five years, can’t be used for personal travel and can be issued in addition to a regular passport.

The State Department outlines four types of special issuance passports:

Black diplomatic passports: Issued to Foreign Service officers and other people with diplomatic or comparable status.
Maroon official passports: Issued to other U.S. government officials or employees traveling abroad for official duties, and to military personnel when required by their country of destination.
Gray service passports: Issued on a limited basis to third-party contractors traveling to support the U.S. government whose travel can’t be accomplished by using a regular passport.
Blue no-fee regular passports: Issued to certain employees within the Department of Defense, American National Red Cross, and Peace Corps volunteers assigned overseas.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/ve...c-101161fb82e7

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2823511)

Pretty much.

BTW I found out the reason that Trump has two passports. The second one is a diplomatic passport issued to all presidents and senior admin officials.

Wasn't it three passport ?

I myself had once two passport.

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2823514)

Wasn't it three passport ?

I myself had once two passport.

Markus

The third one was expired. They don't collect expired passports or drivers licenses over here. Most of us middle aged folks have several of them laying around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2823504)

What I get from this pissing contest is that Obama had private possession of hard copies of classified presidential documents for two years before finally turning them over to NARA in 2018.

Nope. Ownership of the documents transferred to NARA as soon as Trump took the office.

Both Bilge Rat and you seem to mistake the 2018 letter of intent as some kind of first agreement for Obama to turn over the documents; it's not.