:hmm2:

If you want to dig into 1983 (and there's a lot to dig into), we should start a new thread.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

Amen to this, even if your gut says the radar contact is a F-14 getting ready for an attack run on your cruiser, you still double-check it before firing.

In war, sh!t happens. Before now condemning the Iranians and Russians for their acts, lets not forget that the US should remember how it feels. On July 3rd 1988 the USS Vincennes misidentified Iranian flight 655 as an attacking F14 Tomcat at Bandar-Abas, and shot the Airbus A300 down with a SM2-MR missile. 290 dead.


Something similiar seems to have happened in Teheran. One had just struck the US bases. One had to expect possible US air retaliation. One was on high alert. Adrenaline and excitement and fear all around. Someobdy saw an American snake crawling in the grass - or so he thought -, and pulled his sword.


Sh!t happens in war. The longer one plays with fire, the more often one gets burned. Until one played one time too often. Then the whole house and street goes boom and ablaze.

I would point out that in many cases it is not entirely clear what the target is, even if there is an ability to visually observe the target but particularly when this ability is not there.


C4ISR systems and rules of engagement help, but while Iran could adopt the later those are situational as the threat of attack by massed cruise missiles or stealth aircraft precludes such careful ROEs and I am not aware of Iran obtaining advanced C4ISR systems to go with their SAMs (they are on the market though).

Iran has admitted "unintentionally" shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

No doubt the poor bugga of the lowest rank who pressed the launch button will be made the scapegoat and not those higher up the chain of command who are responsible for the weapons system and gave the order to fire.

:agree: I never expected Iran to admit to shooting down this aircraft. Then again, forensic science, being what it is, left Iran with little choice. This is a good reason why travel in the area or in the volatile and socially backwards country that is Iran, should be avoided.

Thankfully when I was there in 1977 it was less so.

Iran is looking even more like a third wold country instead of a nation with wisdom in today's nuclear age :yep:

And I can't understand why they didn't close the Iranian airspace

From xx.xx hour and until further notice the Iranian airspace is closed for civilian aircraft.

Markus

Actually, it seems some high ranking air defence commander demanded right that. And was overturned by a higher instancene in the political-military command chain. I read this somewhere over the day, but for the sake of heaven cant remember the source anymore, whether it was an English or German newspaper.

The POTUS and Secretary of State Pompeo just have to get involved.

That's not how the Iranian camel shaggers and sheep molesters see it.

"UK Envoy Arrested after Provoking Anti-Iran Gathering"
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2...thering-source

Double jeopardy ... Not only did Iran lie about the shooting down of a civilian airliner they knew immediately that they had done something wrong and then they lied about it.

The Iranians are not happy with their leaders and it could become a serious issue in the near future :yep:

"What else are they lying about"?