He,:cool:

Thank you


Markus

Germans from Sudeten wanted to be in the Reich. Only tyrannie could prevent them to do that. Always Versailles ...

Don't reverse the situation. Germany made proposals since 1937, Poland has never made any effort, and even ended up making threats. Poland provoked Germany, she didn't has to complain about the consequences.

Because the government ran away and pretended to still continue the war.

No peace in injustice. Treaty of Versailles was full of injustice... pitiful ! Hitler came into power in order to correct these injustices. That's all. After, he might have been too fast. But when something is injust, the faster you correct it, the better it is.

All I regret in this debate is not being able to share my sources with you. All is in french.

Everybody else had them!

And the Czechs in Czechoslovakia?

Because the Germans overran the country?

Germany made a secret agreement with the Soviet Union to partition Poland, then invaded and occupied the country. It wasn't even in a position to just negotiate the issue after it invaded, and it certainly couldn't have been counting on anything of the sort.

This sounds suspiciously like "The ends justify the means" excuse. While the treaty of Versailles was overly harsh & punative towards Germany, Hitler & the Nazis chose the manner in which they tried to correct those "injustices". They chose wrong.

If the Treaty was so bad, why did Germany sign it?

Sudetenland is in Czechoslovakia, not Poland. If you're talking about the Polish Corridor, it was unfortunate that the respective populations were on the wrong sides of the border. Yes, Germans on the east side of the Corridor wanted to be in Germany, but Poles on the west side wanted to be in Poland as well. It should have been easier to just swap the populations, but of course people also want to live where they've always lived.

"They provoked us." - The excuse of invaders all through history. I'd like to say Germany could have asked the aid of other countries in arbitrating this, but I agree they had reasons not to trust the only nations that could have filled that role. Still, no one forced them to invade.

Because Germany wanted the extra space. You see, it's always easy to come up with reasons that make you look good and the other guy look bad.

No peace in injustice. Treaty of Versailles was full of injustice... pitiful ![/quote]
On that I agree. Britain and France treated Germany very badly in 1919. On the other hand there would have been no treaty and no First War if Germany had not invaded Belgium in 1914. As you said, "She didn't has to complain about the consequences."


But correcting an injustice with another injustice is no justice at all. As we say here, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Just checking in....thread is subject to regular scrutiny.

:hmmm:

Translation: "Of course, it's cool when I do it!"

they did not have a choice, it was either sign the treaty or resume the war and face an invasion.

So they did have a choice.

The Germans signed the treaty and accepted its terms instead of the possibility of total defeat. It was then their responsibility to uphold the agreement they made.

That's often the case :nope:

Dear Sailor Steve, I'm very happy to have this debate with you, you do not fall in irony.

That's why Hitler made a very reasonable proposal :

2. The territory of the so-called [Polish] Corridor will decide for itself whether it wishes to belong to Germany or to Poland. This territory consists of the area between the Baltic Sea [in the north] to a line marked [in the south] by the towns of Marienwerder, Graudenz, Kuhn and Bromberg -- including these towns -- and then westwards to Schoenlanke.

3. For this purpose a plebiscite will be conducted in this territory. All Germans who lived in this territory on January 1, 1918, or were born there on or before that date will be entitled to vote in the plebiscite. Similarly, all Poles, Kashubians, and so forth, who lived in this territory on or before that date, or were born there before that date, will also be entitled to vote. Germans who were expelled from this territory will return to vote in the plebiscite.
To insure an impartial plebiscite and to make sure that all necessary preliminary preparation work is properly carried out, this territory will come under the authority of an international commission, similar to the one organized in the Saar territory [for the 1935 plebiscite there]. This commission is to be organized immediately by the four great powers of Italy, the Soviet Union, France and Britain. This commission will have all sovereign authority in the territory. Accordingly, Polish military forces, Polish police and Polish authorities are to clear out of this territory as soon as possible, by a date to be agreed upon.

4. Not included in this territory is the Polish port of Gdynia, which is regarded as fundamentally sovereign Polish territory, to the extent of [ethnic] Polish settlement, but as a matter of principle is recognized as Polish territory. The specific border of this Polish port city will be negotiated by Germany and Poland and, if necessary, established by an international court of arbitration.

5. In order to insure ample time for the preparations necessary in order to conduct an impartial plebiscite, the plebiscite will not take place until after at least twelve months have elapsed.

7. A simple majority of the votes cast will decide whether the territory will go to Germany or to Poland.

8. [...] If the plebiscite determines that the territory belongs to Poland, Germany will obtain an extraterritorial transit zone, consisting of a motor super-highway [Reichsautobahn] and a four-track rail line, approximately along the line of Buetow-Danzig and Dirschau. The highway and the rail line will be built in such a way that the Polish transit lines are not disturbed, which means that they will pass either above or underneath. This zone will be one kilometer wide and will be sovereign German territory. In case the plebiscite is in Germany's favor, Poland will have free and unrestricted transit to its port of Gdynia with the same right to an extraterritorial road and rail line that Germany would have had.

But maybe, that was also a "fake" ? Really, the situation was too serious to be able to ensure such a thing !

Sorry, but this is pure cynicism.

That's wrong, this is a phantasm.

That's also wrong. The situation was more complexe than just saying : Germany invaded --> Germany is responsible of World War ... :nope: You should ask yourself : why did she act so ? In (very very) short, this was because of the Alliances system.

On that, I agree, and Hitler agreed also : in 1939, he could just have demanded the annexation of the polish corridor. And that was an injustice.

:up:

I am guessing you are having trouble grasping the concept of this thread, here is a primer for you.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caus..._of_Versailles

Yes the treaty was very unfair due that it was put that Germany was sole to blame for World War 1 which we know is false, but she took a huge part in escalating it by granting Austria-Hungary the ''blanque-cheque'' and ofcourse the German Military Elite ruling out any means of solving the crisis through the channels of diplomacy and instead they chose to go to war.