I pay around 1200 euros at the moment. I'll be moving to the Netherlands soon, I don't think the cost will change too much. But from what I've seen, the service will get better :)

these are essential services - REQUIRED - for the preservation of order within a given society.

Me being FORCED into paying so that you can have treatment for kidney stones is not.

me being FORCED into paying so that you can receive cancer treatment for your lung cancer because you smoked your whole life away is NOT a matter of social order or national security.

IF I DONT USE THE FEDERAL INSURANCE - DONT MAKE ME PAY FOR IT.

thats my only request.

i'll keep receiving my quality care. if i need an important surgery you can bet im going to get it inside of a day or two.

you guys do your little social experiment, and let a bunch of governmental beurocrats replace your private beaurocrats if you want... but leave me out of it.

think of the march of dimes thread... it was a charity... but paying into it was your option.

now... if the tax man came to my door and said "you are required to donate a minimum of $50 to each of the following charities....

sorry... i would be livid

As I like your sane reactions on this forum, your very welcome. :up:

Says who?

says common sense.

show me a nation of 300 million or more people where there is no police force or military... and i will show you a nation of complete and utter chaos and lawlessness

Obama has a war brewing over this issue.

and he doesnt even know it. :nope:

Oh ok so countries under 300 million are not counted. I guess it makes sense to live in a under 300 million people country then.

thats a random number I have used as an example which would be representative of the approximate population of the United States.

it doesnt mean that larger or smaller nations are more or less secure without police and military :doh:

have you been drinking?

For my wife and myself nearly 1/3 of my salary. It would be alot less without my wife but hey she deserves it.

With Obamacare and other sundry taxes I see comming it will be at least 50%.

So what you are really saying is that "police forces, Fire and EMS services, military forces, criminal justice services" are needed because "these are essential services - REQUIRED - for the preservation of order within a given society" just because it's like, your opinion, man. Not because there is some magical rule that says they should exist, it's just your personal view on the matter.

Considering the huge US military budget which is taken directly from the US tax payers pocket and fed to various private entities such as weapon makers etc. I would think that the average tax payer at least ought to be vary of what's going on.

And no I haven't been drinking. Have you been sniffing cocaine?

Finnland does not have any Police or Military?

Sure but who decides what and how much is needed? It's a very complex set of decisions and not always up to the people to decide.

IMO this is a very American way of thinking, I'm thinking in terms of small government, Goldenrivet seems to be thinking in terms of big government. I wonder how this is so.

Ill tell you what herring.

firstly... i passionately hate big government. though i do see some police and military as necessary for the protection of the general citizenry.

this opposition to big government should be abundantly evident in the fact that i think it is unfair for my family to be taxed to the tune of $2,000+ additional per year (or more) just so Obama can financially cover the doctor visit of every single citizen who is currently unhappy with their health care providor.

i agree with the statement that "healthcare reform is needed in America."

i virulently disagree with the idea that this "plan" is the answer.

if being opposed to such government takeovers is NOT anti-big government i dont know what is :doh:

Secondly, this is largely an American issue... if you want to start a thread about the governmental decisions of Finland and their effects on the Finnish people - please do so.

i promise i wont post uninformed, illogical and useless opinions in your Finnish health care reform thread.

http://static.globalissues.org/i/mil...taxes-2009.png

Almost half of everything goes into "military spending and cost of past wars". I'd say that's a pretty big piece of the pie.

so what does that have to do with doubling peoples taxes so they can pay for their neighbors doctor visits?