I voted Yes as we were promised we'd be thrown out of the EU for doing so. I get two goes. Tee hee.

Yeah, right.....:O:

Three actually, if the vote goes the way I think it will and the SNP actually get another referendum.

Don't be so sure that the membership of Scotland's parties are completely pro-EU, BTW.:03: Given that it's entirely possible that the wheels may come off the EU project altogether, prompted by the individual countries populations, not their leaders, I don't see much utility of nailing my colours to something that might collapse. I know plenty of people who voted yes but can't stand the EU. For them independence means independence, not being shackled to Brussels instead of Westminster.

For them, an independent Scotland outwith the EU is perfectly OK. If such a thing comes to pass, I wouldn't be too unhappy with the situation. Mainly to see what happens when the more fanatical lefty nationalists realise that what the SNP has promised isn't altogether financially tenable given that there wouldn't be any money transfers from down south, or subsidies from the EU. Scotland would have tighten it's belt mightily, which I'm sure all those SLab created socialist drones in the Western Central Belt would hate.

I say good. An independent Scotland will only work if Glasgow and the surrounding areas get off their collective backsides and stop blaming everyone else for their economic misfortune. That includes getting rid of those corrupt sods in Glasgow City Council. If that city is to have any form of proper economic revival it's needs to vote those apparatchiks out in 2017.

As for North Sea oil and gas, it's a red herring, and always has been IMHO. There may be a fair bit left, but it's the cost of getting it out of the ground which is the deciding factor, not what it sells for. If it costs more to extract than it does to sell, it stays in the ground. The rest of the economy needs to be grown massively across the board for independence to win over the financially cautious. The SNP hierarchy know this, I'll give them that. I'm not sure most of the party's new membership do, especially the left wing nutty ones.

Mike.

I agree totally, and also know a number of Yessers who did not want the EU and see independence as a way out of it quickly. The SNP is a spectrum of political views and, upon independence, would split rapidly (at least that is the analysis I have been given). I don't see negotiations on joining the EU then being possible - far more likely, I think, is a Norway-type model of close association without membership.

My personal preference would have been indy, but in a loose Northern/Arctic Alliance (Scand, Iceland, Greenland...) acting as a buffer against the EU extremism. The worst would be indy and still in the EU - what would be the point?

What would be the point indeed. In that case better the devil you know, than the one you don't. We just need to come to a fairer solution than the one everyone in the UK currently has. I'm a federalist, not a unionist (smacks of Northern Ireland and it's "issues", that term), but I can't see the Tories going anywhere near the idea for ideological reasons, at least for now.:hmmm: It would certainly help fix things, anyway.

Anyway, going back to Scotland itself, as I see it, what I think could be at least one driving factor is what might be called the "big trough" factor. Part of the reason Scotland agreed to the union with England was to get direct access to England's colonial territories and the money and trade that they represented. It tried it's own colonial venture at Darien and failed miserably, hence another reason for the union, a financial bail out. For England, the union cured a very big worry - a potentially unfriendly northern land border to be defended in addition to the equally unfriendly French to the south and the unreliable, rebellious Irish to the West.

Perhaps, now that the Empire is gone, it could be said that the UK as it now stands isn't a big enough trough for the Scottish political class to swill from. The EU is. Very, very much so.

Which is very reminiscent of a much, much older Scottish stereotype - the avaricious, greedy Scot which raised it's head after James the VI of Scotland became the James the I of England. The English nobility were not happy at the sudden influx of Scots nobles who came south with him!

Mike.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...73_306x489.jpg
I'm fighting Terrorists all the way?



Where is the money coming from?



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...p_1762769c.jpg
The poor and needy.

I've met this guy on a number of occasions and always thought he was better than that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34864632

What next?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6738901.html

http://i.imgur.com/bbXg3Bc.jpg
INDEED!!

Well well well, looks who is going to get his own airplane. Yes HagFish Toff boy setting a good example to the rest of us I'm now safe from guns bullets and bombs and the rest of you low life will have to take a chance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/british-pm...s.html#EfBdIgL

Who is going to foot the bill? The poor and needy again!

Hagfish can poke pigs in private now. :03:

You have to win an election before you get such priviledges....just ask the POTUS.

I doubt Corbyn will ever need a passport.

You one party that is in a right mess, you got another that has become worthless and this lot still banging on about cuts while they wast money on HagFish and his cronies so they can jet all over the place!

I doubt I'll ever be able to forgive Labour and the stupid internal election rules Ed introduced, so making Labour unelectable for many a year to come, thus allowing the Tory Party to do as they like, almost unchallenged.

Time for a revolution jim you stock up on Pot Noodle and BossMark stock up on beer and Oberon you buy the Tanks and I will write a strongly worded complaint to the Sunday Times. :)

I'd rather be a bookmaker and take bets on Labour losing the next election by a possible landslide :know:

They were going to loose who ever is leader. If there are so many fed up with JC why don't they breakaway and form a new party?

Back in the 80' we all know this happen...SDP.

That may yet come to pass, especially as he is now positioning his supporters into meaningful positions thus disenfranchising a growing number of the elected moderates.

I think it may come about at next years local elections if Labour get a big hammering. If not tricky to say but the sooner these people breakaway the better to get up and running.

Just been looking up..

Oldham West & Royton results and looks to me Labour will hold this seat in the up coming By-election on Dec 3rd without too much to worry about. Just a question how many votes they gain or loose.


Oldham West & Royton 2015 general election
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/c...cies/E14000871

Labour should hold that seat easy, but to do well they need to increase their share of their vote.

Took me a while, but I got one!

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/s...psb636f37e.jpg

That may be the case, but what I think we've seen in Corbyn's election is that the Parliamentary Labour Party and the party's grass roots sit in rather different areas of the political spectrum.

I'll repeat again, I don't care for the Labour Party, for reasons I've already stated, but you do need a decent opposition. As the second largest party at both Westminster and Holyrood, Labour is failing miserably in both Parliaments.

Some of the latest polling for next years Scottish Parliamentary Elections show the Scots Cons within a ace of overtaking SLab as number two party in terms of vote share, but that won't translate all that well into seats, even under the proportional representation system we have up here. SLab occupies too many of the heavily populated constituencies.

Anyway, moving on to the current situation vis-a-vis Daesh, Sturgeon and Salmond are giving out conflicting signals on whether or not the SNP will or will not support extending airstrikes in to Syria. The former's taking the "willing to listen" position whilst the latter is saying "no support without a UN mandate" one. Thus we see the tension between the Gradualist and Radicalist wings of the party.

There haven't been any specifically Scottish polls on the airstrike question, but I suspect public opinion up here will generally be "agree that something needs to be done, but not convinced airstrikes are a good idea, but if you decide to go in, make damn sure you don't make things worse".:hmmm:

Mike.

Received a letter yesterday from my CLP offering a seat on the coach to go and help.

Obviously haven't updated their membership records of late.