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-   -   FSAA/Anti-aliasing/Major resolution problem (merged) (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106588)

tommyk 03-20-07 10:43 AM
I very much hope upscaled 1024 will be fixed soon for all SH4 skippers but I doubt it so much that I stay with GWX (preorder cancel)

nhall70 03-20-07 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTinSoldier
Quote:
Originally Posted by stabiz
The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.
If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.
None of us really know for sure. Ubisoft has yet to say anything at all about this. We're just speculating that Ubisoft is an experienced enough publisher that they wouldn't do something this deceptive. In other words, we're giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding the resolution "bug".

I honestly don't know what the hell is going on over at Ubisoft anymore. You would think at the very least that they would be sick of seeing this same HUGE outcry all over the Internet every single time they release a game.

Snakeeyes 03-20-07 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stabiz
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTinSoldier
Quote:
Originally Posted by stabiz
The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.
If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.
I am sure because anything else is to hard to fathom. They have stated time and time again that resolutions can be changed, and a 2007 title that doesnt support widescreen is for me the wierdest game suicide ever. I mean, that literally locks out tons of potential customers. Another thing is FSAA, if they want to attract the casual gamer, they should know FSAA is more important to the casual gamer than post processing. I didnt join in on the FSAA thread until now, since I always expected it could be forced, like in SH3. What a let down this is.
If I know UBI soft, YES the resolution thing will be fixed. DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH for the AA! Ubisoft hates it and their latest engines appear to be cost-savers. The only way AA can be added is if this engine driving the game is NOT the same used in GRAW. From what I see in the demo videos IT IS IDENTICAL to GRAW. STILL... at least the game does not come from GRIN... those guys were simply the worst when it came to PC titles.

DaMaGe007 03-20-07 10:51 AM
I have doubts that the resolution upscaling will be fixed to tell you the truth.
The other screens are at higher resolutions and it gives the impression that the game is running in a higher rez, I dont think they ever had any intention of making the 3d run at a higher rez.
Sh3 was locked at a lower rez and its the same engine with a few enhancements.

Sh3 was never fixed...

piperprinx 03-20-07 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonhammer
Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....

I could stand AA, but 1024 is a shame....even N64 emulator looks better.... at least it has AA...

Snakeeyes 03-20-07 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piperprinx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonhammer
Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....
If it's as bad as I think It's going back.

SteamWake 03-20-07 11:22 AM
It is curious that after 18 pages of debate no definative answer has been reached.

Also that many of the doom sayers are also the ones that play "hardcore" with no external views :hmm:

Yup I'd prefer to have fsaa available after all I spent alot of money on my video card to do such things.

Will it "break" my game experience? Not really.

Shaffer4 03-20-07 11:25 AM
Quite honestly, For me, the only reason that I adjust the Graphics level above 1024x768 is to make the text smaller. so, doesn't really look like an issue to me. Same for AA; didn't bother me in SH3, shouldn't bother me here.

Snakeeyes 03-20-07 11:30 AM
Everyone has different standards and tastes. If you like it then go crazy man! Play it out! I don't have any problem with ANYONE liking SHIV! I hope we ALL do.

It's just that weirdo graphics that appear to be as bad as these are going to be so distracting that I don't think I'll keep it. NOW... if the leggo effect is not as bad as it looks in video I'll give it a whirl. The sad thing is that I'm worried in the year 2007 by Thursday afternoon I'll be playing GWX again and there will be a box for Fed Ex pickup containing a $60.00 game on the stairs.

Graphics that CAN'T be smoothed in 2007?! We've been fracked.

Just sad what has appeared to have happened. I was really excited you know? :nope:

OneTinSoldier 03-20-07 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMaGe007
I have doubts that the resolution upscaling will be fixed to tell you the truth.
The other screens are at higher resolutions and it gives the impression that the game is running in a higher rez, I dont think they ever had any intention of making the 3d run at a higher rez.
Sh3 was locked at a lower rez and its the same engine with a few enhancements.

Sh3 was never fixed...
Yeah, I'm still not convinced. I thought maybe stabiz had some kind of inside info. But it seems he's just going with a feeling that Ubi will do what's right.

Sorry stabiz, but I feel otherwise. I think Ubi is seeing what they can get away with here to get our money rather than do what's right. The only way I believe that the 3D world rendered resolution will be fixed and give us what's advertised in the game's options... is when Ubi says they they are going to fix it. Somehow, I don't think it's a small deal to fix.


Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?

piperprinx 03-20-07 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by piperprinx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonhammer
Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....
If it's as bad as I think It's going back.
Mine's going back...I think someone should be completely drunk to think about a game stuck on 1024 in 2007

DaMaGe007 03-20-07 11:35 AM
Really ?
I think stabitz is being optimistic, and aplying a bit of wishfull thinking, but I would be happy for a UBi or developer comment about this issue, they must be reading...

also if Stabitz has some inside info I would be glad to hear it, mabe he is a beta tester or somthing...

Edit: the foreboding silence from ubi/developers is pretty much giving me the answer anyway.

RocketDog 03-20-07 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTinSoldier
Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?
The famous dll fix on SH3 allows the game to be run with resolutions above 1024x768 with no apparent ill affects. I run SH3/GWX at 1600 x 1200 with 4xFSAA and 4xAF and it whizzes along at very respectable frame rates. I would expect that something similar could be done for SH4. If this were possible, running it in very high resolutions might mitigate the lack of FSAA - but it's still pretty shocking that a sim can be marketed in 2007 without a routine IQ feature like FSAA. I guess that anisotropic filtering is also ruled out?

More pertinently, on a big monitor (I use a 22" Iyama CRT) the IQ at 1024 x 768 with no FSAA is going to be truly horrible. If the IQ is degraded to be no better than SH3, why should I bother with SH4 when GWX has probably raised the gameplay beyond stock SH4 anyway?

Cheers,

RD.

DaMaGe007 03-20-07 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTinSoldier
Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?
The famous dll fix on SH3 allows the game to be run with resolutions above 1024x768 with no apparent ill affects. I run SH3/GWX at 1600 x 1200 with 4xFSAA and 4xAF and it whizzes along at very respectable frame rates. I would expect that something similar could be done for SH4. If this were possible, running it in very high resolutions might mitigate the lack of FSAA - but it's still pretty shocking that a sim can be marketed in 2007 without a routine IQ feature like FSAA. I guess that anisotropic filtering is also ruled out?

More pertinently, on a big monitor (I use a 22" Iyama CRT) the IQ at 1024 x 768 with no FSAA is going to be truly horrible. If the IQ is degraded to be no better than SH3, why should I bother with SH4 when GWX has probably raised the gameplay beyond stock SH4 anyway?

Cheers,

RD.
It might have been broken due to the Upscaling of the 1024 image, I think someone posted that the resolution fix for sh3 doesnt work with sh4...

RocketDog 03-20-07 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMaGe007
It might have been broken due to the Upscaling of the 1024 image, I think someone posted that the resolution fix for sh3 doesnt work with sh4...
That would be a real pain. I can't imagine playing anything in 1024 without FSAA. Anyway, I have cancelled my pre-order and will see if either high resolutions or FSAA become available in future. Man, what a disappointment after all the waiting.

Cheers,

RD.

Ragtag 03-20-07 12:02 PM
Geforce 8800 card series supports HDR+FSAA but the problem is that there are no drivers wich supports it yet even though the card does.

DragonRR1 03-20-07 12:06 PM
The SH3 res fix doesn't "appear" to work. I had a couple of tries with it. It did "something" - the text screens looked a bit odd... but didn't fix the issue.

As I've already mentioned my programmer friend has suggested that they might be rendering the 3D to a 1024x768 back buffer which, he says, is more complicated than just rendering directly. If he is right then the devs may well be able to fix the issue quite easily. There may well be a fixed 1024x768 setting hardcoded which they may just simply need to remove.

Whether they actually WILL fix the problem is debateable. I remember that they said with SH3 that changing screen res was just not possible... and yet someone proved them totally wrong. They may have had some issues with high res 3D and decided that they would just not enable it for support or FPS reasons..

Anything I or anyone else says (except UBI and the Devs) regarding whether the issue will be fixed is just educated guess work.

OneTinSoldier 03-20-07 12:26 PM
Thanks DragonRR1. It should be interesting to see what Ubi has to say about this faked high resolution issue, if they aren't to scared to talk that is.

They were obviously too afraid to answer whether the game would support any Anti-Aliasing(how hard can it be to answer that question) which was
asked a number of times in the weeks before the game was released.

DaMaGe007 03-20-07 12:33 PM
Im almost positive they wont say anything, they want people to think they are going to patch it.

Sad but most likely true. If sh3 is anything to go by.

malkuth74 03-20-07 01:27 PM
From an Article someone Posted a link to in this Thread.

<u>When games that could benefit from AA on current hardware don't offer the option, we have no choice but to look to the driver for support. Of course, we do have bigger problems on the horizon. Some developers are currently choosing options such as deferred rendering for their games. Current techniques make use of multiple render targets (MRTs) to render objects or effects which are later combined to form a final image. MSAA does not play well with this technique, as one of the basic requirements is knowing what surfaces overlap a single pixel on the screen. Forcing AA on in the driver can cause problems in games where MSAA simply will not work. Current examples of this can be seen in these games:
  • Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter
  • Rainbow Six: Vegas
  • S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
</u>Imagine that, seems that you might want to add SHIV to this article. If this is true then I see AA Going to the wayside soon. And then what is everyone going to do?

But this should be combated with being aloud to have higher Resolutions. And no excuse for not doing that.


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