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If I remember correctly they got a part of Palestine from UN in 1948-Which the other Arabic countries refused to accept and attacked the new country.

Israel won this war and lost the Gaza strip to Egypt but gain land in other places. They won these land in war and are thereby theirs

In the 1967 war Israel toke Sinai

The war in 1973 here they manage to take the Golan and rest of Jerusalem

They so to say "won" these part of land in war.

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2890811)

Was that before Haganah attacked the Palestine's pre-1948 and drove them off their land?

There never has been, nor will there be, a military solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
This is the time to address Israelis in the spirit of mutual respect, hope, and truthfulness; to move beyond the dismissive, derogatory, and threatening words and deeds that define the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis, and between Arabs and Jews.

I was born and raised in Jerusalem. I started out as a Palestinian, then became a Palestinian Jordanian, then an immigrant to America, and then an American, now for more than half a century. But nothing—not time, not distance—has diluted my empathy with the Palestinians and Palestine, and nothing has altered my view that all people have rights and deserve to be treated with respect. During my medical residency in the U.S., I met American Jewish doctors who shared my interests and curiosity, if not necessarily my views. Some of them remain my good friends to this day. I have been fortunate in my work, at the American Task Force on Palestine, to develop treasured and enduring friendships with many Jewish people of different nationalities, including Israelis. It is in this very American spirit that I address Israelis today.

I must start by noting that our family lost everything in Jerusalem in 1948. We survived and even thrived, but this loss is a core truth of my family’s history. Yet even as I have lived Palestinian pain, I have made an effort to study and understand Jewish pain, which is primordial and deep.

Palestinians—almost unanimously—view Zionism not as a triumph, as so many Jews view it, but as a historical tragedy. What is today the nation of Israel began in the late 19th century as a quasi-messianic Western movement to transform historic Palestine into a Jewish state, which had not existed for 2,000 years. The story from our perspective is one of relentless, systematic dispossession of the indigenous Arab population, sponsored by Western colonial powers who were at best cavalier toward Arab rights and aspirations, and at worst brutal and racist... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...lution/675897/

This was an interesting read.

Where should history begin, and should it matter?

Quote:

“Israel” and “Palestine.” One land, two names. Both Jews and Arabs have claimed it as theirs alone. From a purely historical perspective, “Israel” predates “Palestine” by more than a millennium. But, with the Jewish people then dispersed from their homeland, “Palestine” became home to a substantial Arab population, again for more than a millennium. From a perspective of justice and equity, both peoples have a legitimate claim to the land.

Most Read of 2021: “Israel” and “Palestine”: Where Should History Begin, and Should it Matter?

https://www.internationalaffairs.org...a%20millennium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight (Post 2890822)

This was an interesting read.

Where should history begin, and should it matter?

Most Read of 2021: “Israel” and “Palestine”: Where Should History Begin, and Should it Matter?

https://www.internationalaffairs.org...a%20millennium.

Seeing as how both consider themselves sons of Abraham I’m sure his sons could live in peace if it weren’t for extremists with written charters like those of Hamas. https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Jew doesn’t define a religion it’s short for Judaean which defines a particular stretch land one hails from..

There can be no doubt that the territory known as Israel now and Palestine before, before that was Roman. And before that was Hebrew. And before that wa ssomethign else. And before that was just land with grass eaters and meat nibblers. And before that was somethign totally different.

We should all and everything genetically regress and evolve back to that one cell that we all once were and where we were all one because there was only that one first cell. What peaceful times those were when we were all just one and knew with certainty: "A second cell? I don't need one."

Its ironic that the land that humans - and only humans - call "the Holy Land" is the one most fought-over and blood-soaking piece of land in the whole world. Tells a lot about religion.

You don't destroy mosques, churches, bakeries, olive groves, farms, universities, hospitals, schools, power systems, water systems, unless you are trying to erase an entire people. Unless, when you say terrorists, you actually mean everyone. It's not complex there is no greater evil than genocide, there is no greater dark compromise than to surrender to it. No two sides to this story there's the death cult of Zionism, a European colonial project that seeks to exploit the horror Jews and others went through in WWII as it works to match that nightmare, and there are the occupied who have a fundamental right to armed struggle and freedom. Our generation came of age to the horror of a sobbing Vietnamese girl running, burned naked by Napalm made in the USA. Today entire Palestinian families are vaporized by Israeli phosphorous funded by the USA. Only fools would describe Israel's most recent genocidal attack on millions of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and the West Bank as an attack on Hamas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo (Post 2890827)

Interesting :hmmm:

Israel basic law:

Quote:

Purpose

1. The purpose of this Basic Law is to protect human dignity and liberty, in order to establish in a Basic Law tile values of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state.

Preservation of life, body and dignity

2. There shall be no violation of the life, body or dignity of any person as such.
Protection of property

3. There shall be no violation of the property of a person.

Protection of life, body and dignity

4. All persons are entitled to protection of their life, body and dignity.
Personal liberty
5. There shall be no deprivation or restriction of the liberty of a person by imprisonment, arrest, extradition or otherwise.
Leaving and entering Israel
6. (a) All persons are free to leave Israel.
(b) Every Israel national has the right of entry into Israel from abroad.

Privacy

7. (a) All persons have the right to privacy and to intimacy.
(b) There shall be no entry into the private premises of a person who has not consented thereto.

(c) No search shall be conducted on the private premises of a person, nor in the body or personal effects.

(d) There shall be no violation of the confidentiality of conversation, or of the writings or records of a person.

Violation of rights

8. There shall be no violation of rights under this Basic Law except by a law befitting the values of the State of Israel, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required.
Reservation regarding security forces

9. There shall be no restriction of rights under this Basic Law held by persons serving in the Israel Defence Forces, the Israel Police, the Prisons Service and other security organizations of the State, nor shall such rights be subject to conditions, except by virtue of a law, or by regulation enacted by virtue of a law, and to an extent no greater than is required by the nature and character of the service.

Validity of laws

10. This Basic Law shall not affect the validity of any law (din) in force prior to the commencement of the Basic Law.

Application

11. All governmental authorities are bound to respect the rights under this Basic Law.

Stability

12. This Basic Law cannot be varied, suspended or made subject to conditions by emergency regulations; notwithstanding, when a state of emergency exists, by virtue of a declaration under section 9 of the Law and Administration Ordinance, 5708-1948, emergency regulations may be enacted by virtue of said section to deny or restrict rights under this Basic Law, provided the denial or restriction shall be for a proper purpose and for a period and extent no greater than is required.

YITZHAK SHAMIR
Prime Minister
CHAIM HERZOG
President of the State

DOV SHILANSKY
Speaker of the Knesset

* Passed by the Knesset on the 12th Adar Bet, 5752 (17th March, 1992) and published in Sefer Ha-Chukkim No. 1391 of the 20th Adar Bet, 5752 (25th March, 1992); the Bill and an Explanatory Note were published in Hatza'ot Chok, No. 2086 of 5752, p. 60.

COMPARED TO HAMAS CHARTER sane people know them as the religious cowards who hide behind and use innocent civilians as shields.

Quote:

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August

18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the

territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive

manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the

basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad

(Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:

Goals of the HAMAS:

------------------

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian

movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is

Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of

Palestine.' (Article 6)

On the Destruction of Israel:

-----------------------------

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

----------------------------------------

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]

consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one

can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'

(Article 11)

'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the

Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem

wherever he may be.' (Article 13)

The Call to Jihad:

------------------

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the

individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,

it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses

everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the

call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will

reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is

achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.'

(Article 33)

Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

----------------------------------------------

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle

[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The

Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar

agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)

Anti-Semitic Incitement:

------------------------

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have

accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,

they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred

revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the

French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the

revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret

organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -

which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies

and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...

and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the

world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge

financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them

having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet

expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have

finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they

will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out

in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the

circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over

the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped

for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'

(Article 32)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar (Post 2890828)

Interesting :hmmm:

Israel basic law:

COMPARED TO HAMAS CHARTER sane people know them as the religious cowards who hide behind and use innocent civilians as shields.

When I speak of Palestinian I speak of the Palestinian people no gods no masters no slaves. Hamas is not Palestine. Palestine is not Hamas. If you cannot tell the difference, that says something about you, not the Palestinian people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo (Post 2890830)

You’re fookin kidding right? Iranian backed Hamas attacks a legitimate state. That legitimate state retaliates against a bunch of allah lovin Hamas terrorists whose only goal is to kill Judeans. And you have the audacity to equate the retaliation against Hamas as an attack against Palestinians? Utter foolishness to think that. Damn your eyes.

How much you want to bet those poor Palestinians you seem to care so much about would love nothing more than to see Hamas and all the other religious allah lovin killers to be eliminated just as much as Israel and the rest of humanity would?

It’s simple, get rid of Iranian backed terrorists like Hamas and all the other allah lovin’ kook fringe psychos and there will be peace. What those poor Palestinians need is their own Alexander Hamilton, John Quincy Adams, Paul Revere and Crispus Attucks to stand up and declare their freedom from the Allah lovin’ psycho killers like Hamas so they can live in peace.

And btw, those pictures you’re so appalled by of the little Vietnamese girl burned by American weapons are the same American weapons you believe are necessary in Ukraine. War is hell if ya don’t have the stomach for it then stay out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar (Post 2890831)

You’re fookin kidding right? Iranian backed Hamas attacks a legitimate state. That legitimate state retaliates against a bunch of allah lovin Hamas terrorists whose only goal is to kill Judeans. And now you have the audacity to sit there and tell me an attack against Hamas is an attack against Palestinians ? :har: :har::har:

How much you want to bet those poor Palestinians you mention would love to see Hamas and all the other religious allah lovin killers to be eliminated just as much as Israel does.

It’s simple, get rid of Iranian backed terrorists like Hamas and all the other allah lovin’ kook fringe psychos and there will be peace. What those poor Palestinians need is their own Alexander Hamilton, John Quincy Adams and Crispus Attucks to stand up and declare their freedom from the Allah lovin’ psycho killers like Hamas so they can live in peace.

You can throw what ever on the table I speak of Palestine people I really do not care either you can name me what ever you want I do not care the turn is already made throw any god backward spelt dog at me accuse me of terrorism I will not stop no state could so certainly you can't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo (Post 2890833)

Dude, proof read google translate before you post it. I don’t have a fookin clue what the hell you just wrote. Either that your account was hacked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo (Post 2890830)

When Hamas deliberately builds military infrastructure under hospitals, schools, kindergardens, like hezbollah abuses mosques as weapons depots, and in general hides within civilian population, there is no difference between Hamas and "Palestine" anymore. Israels sends knockon warnings, dud bombs, before it really strikes, to give civilians the opportunity to flee, and terrorists alike. Hamas wants, it deliberately wants civilians getting killed, to score in the propaganda war.

Hamas must be destroyed. Presence of civilians must not distract from that goal. Israel cannot avoid collateral damage, but does a lot to avoid it. But it also does what it must. Hamas does what it can to maximise collateral damage. Thats what sets both sides apart. Those tunnels are up to 80m deep. Making them collapse by bombing leaves destruction on the ground surface, too. It cannot be avoided. They must prepare as good as they can, to not needlessly send more soldiers into their deaths than unavoidable. Or should they sacrifice their Jewish lives to save Arab lives?

I find the idea that Palestinians aren't on the same side as Hamas funny because even the ones on college campuses in the US appear to be on the side of Hamas. :hmmm:

On German streets, Islamic fascism, Hamas genocidalism, and native leftists and Marxist, rightwingers and Nazis, and "woke", "progressive", post-cultural dumbheads melt together and unify. What a mix, united by its hate on freedom, democracy, liberals, "the West" - and Jews. We saw a first taste of that already during and in the aftermath of the terror attack on the Olympic games 1972. Thats fifty years ago.

Lets face it, in the past, many said they criticised Israel but not the Jews. But what it really was about all the time was hate on Jews: antisemitism. And in Germany, we imported antisemites and the wonderful ideology of Islam like crazy. Now we are no more master in our own house, and the mice dance on our tables. In the city of Essen, pro Palstinian dmeonstrator and "radical Islamists" called for the erection of a calipohate in Germany, in other palces the extemrination of Jews was demanded - all not allowed by the law. The government? Outraged words, forbidding words, warning words, admonishing words, threatening words, announcing words - but no deeds to add meat and bones to them - or to enforce the rule of the law. They banned one, a single one radical Hamas organsiation (banned in the EU and rated as a terror organization by the eU since many years. The other such organisations all are left untouched.

Germany is hilarious.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken meets Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the occupied West Bank.

President Abbas is the leader of the Palestinian Authority, which governs the parts of the West Bank not under Israeli control.

Blinken has been working with leaders in the region on a so-called humanitarian pause. President Joe Biden suggested there had been some progress on the issue.

But Arab countries have been demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. The US warns this would allow Hamas to regroup.

Meanwhile the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says more than 30 people have been killed in an Israeli airstrike on the al-Maghazi refugee camp - the Israeli military says it is investigating.

The UN says there are nearly 1.5 million displaced Gazans - and its facilities in the south are over capacity and no longer able to accept new arrivals.

They say the first victim in a war is the truth, the second type of victims is the civilians.

Markus

If you think about it all the fighting is about "religion", as a theo[sic[k]] - retical idea about the ultimate "truth".
I do not believe ethics are based on any religion.
But religion or not, how can you slaughter people for millenia for any theory of religion, imperium, dominance. Sick human minds.