Yes, it is a functional game that is not broken. I didn't say it couldn't be improved. There are some things I would like also, such as I would like an sonar active intercept on my FFG-7, better SAM's, an updated database, etc. But broken?? I don't think so. I can play all the platforms as they were intended to be played without any real problems. In the subs I have no problem hunting ships or submarines. In the FFG, I have conducted AAW support missions, ASW screens, and have supported the ASuW mission nicely. And the FFG has no RAM sam. The game puts the SM-2 in it's place for gameplay. The air platforms seem fine as well. I have no problems finding surface platforms with ESM, Radar, or visually. Nor do I have serious problems finding and prosecuting subs using sonobouys, MAD gear, and torpedos. And FYI, I've never seen any PC game give 100% fidelity. As a PC game and naval combat sim, DW meets my needs just fine. Thank you very much. And the LWAMI mod just increased it's value significantly. I don't play MP, but what you describe there might be troublesome.

I don't know Molon Labe. I'm just not having any problems playing DW and enjoying it like you say you are.

You said fully functional. I notice now you've dropped the adjective. I take that as a concession. :smug:

Are you saying that any of the specific things I mentioned function as they should?

Where exactly did I say anything about a RAM SAM on an FFG?

I'm enjoying it quite a bit, but it's still absurd to call a sim with non-functioning systems "fully functional."

LOL. OK, whatever :D. I'm simply not going to argue with you over what functionality means to you, and how it differs from my POV. DW is fully functional to me as far as I'm concerned. Simply put, you're free to your opinion. But I don't think you can assign my level of enjoyment to the game or how I view it's functionality. I just don't see the things you list as major show-stopping problems for this game. Nothing to be considered broken at all, and things that may need minor tweaking. But in no way do they get in my way of operating my playable platforms in the environments they were intended to simulate in.

I never called any of these things show stoppers. That's three times in this sequence you've put words in my mouth. Please stop.

Also, none of this is point of view, opinion, or anything like that. Take the RAM SAM example. When fired, the missile will fly in a straight line, passing its target without making any effort to hit it. This is because the missile's seeker is not functioning. Point of view has nothing to do with it; the missile is not functional.

Of course, LW/Ami fixes the RAM, but LW couldn't fix everything. He has tried to find a way, for example, to get the gun component of the SA-N-11+gun CIWS system (listed in the DB as CADS) to work, but didn't find a way. He did get the missile component to work, however, which was NON-FUNCTIONAL in stock DW. Again, not opinion, the gun really doesn't work, no matter what your point of view is.

OK. I apologize. But I did not intend to put words in your mouth. It was a misunderstanding. I thought you were complaining about the RAM Sam, like it was a game-user interface or something. My bad on that. My point is that no PC game will ever give you 100% fidelity. There are always trade-offs. And DW is a game that is nowhere near broken. There is nothing stopping you from playing the user playable platforms in a way that simulates closely real world naval ops. Wanting added functionality/accuracy is one thing, calling the game broken is another. I do agree that there is room for improvements and still things that could use tweaking. This thread is helpful in that regard. But I don't consider the game broken or unplayable in anyway. DW is a fine product indeed.

I will no longer respond about this in this thread. The thread's topic is Patch Suggestions, and this conversation is not adding to the topic.

Well, if you're going to get one last one in before moving on, so will I... Especially as you have once again misrepresented my position. I didn't call DW broken. I called the broken parts of DW broken. The sim as a whole does a very good job at modeling everything that occurs under the waves. In fact, the only broken systems I can think of that relates to ASW are mines that lay on the sea floor and the RBU (both of which LW/Ami fixes). Well, those and the sub-launched missiles that occasionally completely malfunction. And currents. And Convergence Zones in shallow water. Maybe I should stop before I think of more....

I also disagree about the sweeping statement, "There is nothing stopping you from playing the user playable platforms in a way that simulates closely real world naval ops," seeing as it is that the physics system for missiles does not "simulate closely" anything, but is instead a gross abstraction--missiles have a fixed range and constant engergy state; no attempt is made to model the constantly varying engery state of the missile, its capacity to manuever at that engergy state, and the depletion of that energy as it manuevers (which determines its actual range). The abstracted model ends up being relatively OK for the interception of ASMs at long range, since the target is moving in a straight line and constant speed and the SAM doesn't need to maneuver much to intercept. But the model is nowhere near reality for any missile that has to turn or change altitude. For our purposes, this means that anytime SAMs are shot at fixed wing aircraft, a Maverick is fired at a helo, or any non-cruise ASM is fired, the model is very poor. The system is far too abstract to even attempt to model ASMs that perform evasive maneuevers before striking their target, nor attempts by SAMs to intercept them.

The radar model is also grossly abstracted, having a significant impact on the targeting of AAW and ASUW weapons and on how the seekers acquire/don't acquire their targets. (Just as an example, think about how a "soft kill" by chaff is modeled). Worse yet, the IR Maverick target acquisition sytem isn't even an abstraction; it's just wrong.

Quite simply, for anything above the waves, DW does not "[simulate] closely real world naval ops." Now, if you confined your statement to submarine warfare/ASW, then you'd be pretty much right. DW has evolved from two previous sims modeling that environment, and is quite sophisticated in that area. But DW still has a long way to go before it accurately simulates the rest of the battlespace.

...And now, I'm willing to quit taking up more space with this. :cool:

Will you guys quit trashing up the Suggestion Thread with that pointless bickering. That's almost a page and a half of meaningless quabble.:shifty: :nope:

Suggestions only please

We've both already said that we've finished--3 DAYS AGO.
And I really don't care what you say about it. Whenever my positions are publicly misrepresented, I will respond in the same space. In any case, my posts in this sequence contain a $hit ton of issues in DW which should be fixed in the future, so they contributesto the topic anyway.

On PRC kilo "Crush Depth" is misspelled "Crash Depth" :oops:

That could use some fixing... :know:

Now that's a smart suggestion.:rotfl:

Some things from SubCommand would be nice to see in DW. One is the speed vs depth modeling that SC had, where a subs top speed was more dependent on the Subs depth. The other is the wake effect for raised mast.

:up:

As mentioned in another thread the towed array audio in broadband display isn't working if you play a multiplayer multi station game and the player at the sonar station doesn't have control over the ship control station as well. The members of taktik-sims.de would appriciate a fix for that.

Greets

Raskil

This thread has been running for TWO years and how much of what has been posted has been achieved?

The performance of both ship and airborne AA guns needs to be seriously improved. It seems that regardless of the rate of fire indicated on the database, they fire only a shot or two, wait to check if they hit the target, then fire another, wait and so on, kind of saying "somebody gotta pay that ammo and it ain't cheap anymore so don't waste it"...

Sonalyst corrected this in the last patch of SC by allowing these platforms to fire their guns regardless of targeting constraits or something like that, so we know it is fixable. That would be a nice addition to a future patch...

I guess LWAMI fix this but I'm not really sure. :o