A bit more specific if you don't mind. Are you referring to the fact Finland had an alliance with Nazi Germany or the little needle about Seig Heil? Sorry for the first misspelling, BTW. Look Tex...like I said before...if you dish it out you have to be able to take it.

Here's an interesting factoid:

SS-Volunteer Battalion Nordost
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the SS)

The Finnisches Freiwilligen-Bataillon der Waffen-SS was a Finnish volunteer combat battalion of the German Waffen SS. It saw action on the Eastern Front during World War II.
Formed in 1941 as SS Freiwilligen-Battalion Nordost the battalion was made up of 1200 Finnish volunteers who had signed to fight against Soviet Union for two years. While many Finns were already serving with the SS-Division (mot) Wiking, the battalion differed in that it was staffed with Finnish officers and NCOs (Wiking being commanded by Germans).
After initial training in Vienna the battalion was transferred to Stralsund in June 1941 and at the beginning of August to the infantry barracks at Gross-Born, Pomerania, for more training and where it was attached to SS Division (mot) Wiking.
The battalion was sent to the Eastern front in January 1942 and took part on battles along the Mius River and later in the Caucasus campaign of 1942, forming the vanguard of the furthest south made by the Germans during the campaign, reaching the Grozny oil fields before finally being pushed back by the Soviets.
In May 1943 the battalion was transferred away from the front, as the two years was at an end, and was disbanded in July 1943. Those members of the battalion who wanted to stay in Waffen-SS joined SS Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier Division Nordland or SS-Standarte Kurt Eggers.
The battalion was praised by many Waffen-SS commanders and even Himmler, who said "Where a Finnish SS-man stood, enemy was always defeated."

I would bet those guys didn't whine about fighting under the swastika flag.

Dep

And what does that last post of yours proof? That there are VOLUNTEERS amongst Finns? :p

And I ask again, how did I insult your country?

Could say the same regarding "Some" britsh that joined the Waffen SS "Free Corps"
But i would never use a derogatory remark like "seig heil"
Instead of polluting the forums with racist crap please do it via PM as the vast majority dont want to read stuff like this, and before you say "WELL dont read the thread then" the thread was hijacked.

@Deputy,
Himmler spewed lots of CRAP (as did all governments involved) for the the sake of morale and propaganda.

You know damn well to what I refer.

I refer to your disrespect of the spirit of this forum and your disrespect of Dowly...

... and anyone who calls me "Tex" or implies that Dowly is a Nazi or Nazi Sympathizer should be happy that he is not meeting with me in person today.

You should be banned for the kind of craptacular mess you are making here here.

Leave your politics and baiting at home.

I'm done with you... Say whatever you like... Its all crap.

WWII is over buddy. Neither Dowly, nor anyone else here should be made to bear that cross.

Feel free to play in your pile of poo.

GGGrrrrr:arrgh!: @ Deputy


Why U drop D Sieg Heil-bomb on Dowly?!?! He just wanted to know why Stalin doesn't get the same attention Hitler gets.

It was me that started the America vs. Japan because I too believe that no one had clean hands in WWII and that the world so easily pins the tag of "bad guy" on Hitler way too often when there were other bad people in this world who killed just as many or more people than Hitler did.

Yes, Dowly was OT with his post and so was I, but he DID NOT offened America. I am an American and I wasn't offened so therefore you MUST be the one starting the crap. No one had a problem with any of it till you came blabbering in.

Honestly, I think it was YOU that insulted Finland (and Dowly cause he Finnish), by calling his country Nazi supporters and then using the Sieg Heil bomb on Dowly himself as if he was a Nazi. You did this twice in two seperate posts.

Shame on you :stare:

:hmm: [quote=shegeek72]Since I created a Grey Wolves sig using it, and found out it's prohibited in Germany, I wanted to get feedback from you guys. I realize SH3 is just a game and the swastika has been used as a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism and occurs in other Asian, European, African and Native American cultures, there may be some who find it offensive (even though it used in the game). If so, I'll remove it from my sig.:know:

well, herein u said a mouthful. 1st of all, yes swastikas are sacred, even protective symbols, in several ancient cultures. they R prohibited in Germany thou becouse (u can guess why, cant u?) - as if that would stop a hypothetical 4th REICH!
i beleive in historical accuracy. wether on my model airplanes or on Uboats ingame, i think what needs to be there, needs to be there. (and i have lost many relatives :nope: in the war, since most - i think all - russian families were touched by the great war.) and althou i cant bring myself to always fly german bf109s in forgotten battles (gr8 game!!!:up: ) i still think a game with ONLY german submarines, should be DEFINITELY historically acurate.
thts my $0.02
edit -- heated opinions, huh? 9/11 should not be discussed her, but the animals that did it should burn until crispy original recipy. i lost relatives in the great war. i also had relatives imprisoned under Stalin. they R both SAME $H|T!!! both are nazis and mass murderers!
KPT. said it best - play in the pile of poo u've created!
sieg heil? r u kidding me? wtf did that come from?

edit - edit -- Dep should be kiked from the forum and america should immideately withdraw from iraq/afganistan! (and that's sayin' not coz i like those animals - i h8 them - i'd fight em myself - i just cant stand to see a 2nd vietnam on our hands for NO APPARENT reason!!!)
anywhere there is a discussion about swastikas u'll find such battle/arguments. it just stands for something evil. but really they (Nazis) hijaked the protective symbol turning it into one of hate.

:roll::roll::roll: This thread is degenerating like a Ubi one. :nope::nope::nope:

It would be nice if each participant tempers itself. :yep::yep::yep:

Like SubSerpent pointed out on page 6, the toll is 379,776 atm. But why civilian targets? Why not bomb military bases? It would not kill as much as hitting civilian target, but the seeing what the bombs can do would surely make any country surrender. ;)

I guess the figure depends on where you find it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...a_and_Nagasaki

As for the targets, have you ever been to Japan? I have, and I lived there for 3 years. Nowhere on those islands can you put a military installation that isn't adjacent to or surrounded by a civilian center.

The website I got my information at (on page 6 of this thread) clearly states
Obviously, the death toll is still being counted! The bombs will contiue to affect people for many years to come!

Also, the bombs were admitted by US officials to be used on the innocent Japanese to deter (to instill fear?) a continuation of fighting with the US!

Those two bombs have nearly wiped out as many Japanese innocents than all the men the US lost during the entire war (including the Europe theater and the Pacific theater) US estimates about 450,000 US soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, died during the entire war.

Except the war was not just between Japan and the US SubSerpent, why does everyone forget the rest of Asia? China lost about 10 million for example. I am not happy about the a-bombs and think they should have been used as Dowly suggested, and don't deny what these people suffered, but I read somewhere only 5% of deaths in all of WWII were Axis civilians. I doubt that would change much even with the radiation sickness etc.

Oh, keep the Swastika in WWII games please, as long as you leave the choice for those who don't want it and respect the laws of certain countries.

Dowly mate you could say the same about the City Bombing of Coventry and London by the LuftWaffe, Berlin and Dresden RAF bomber command and the mass firebombing of Nagoya,Osaka,Kobe and Tokyo by the USAAF. In Tokyo 100,000 Japanese died in one raid.This may have been the most devastating single raid ever carried out by aircraft in any war including the The Atomic bombs. Around 16 square miles (41 km²) of the city were destroyed in the FireStorm. The destruction and damage was at its worst in the city sections east of the Imperial Palace. In the following two weeks there were almost 1,600 further sorties against the four cities, destroying 31 square miles (80 km²) in total at a cost of 22 aircraft. There was a third raid on Tokyo on May 26.That fact of the matter is values have changed. We are more aware of collateral damage these days and with the advent of "smart" weapons mass bombing is no longer used in poputalted areas. We will never see another World War fought like WWI, WWII..put simply WWIV will be fought with rocks and sticks.( If anyone is left )

Back on topic..I like the swastica..not what it stood for when the Nazi party adopted it.It's a part of history so i would like to see it in game and how ever much we try we cannot erase histroy...what ever country you come from i'm sure there is a piece of dark histroy we would love to erase. We can't change History but WE CAN LEARN FROM IT!!

Yes, I could say the same of any attack made towards pure civilian targets.

Trust me, I was tempted to insult Deputy with every insulting word I know, both english ones and finnish ones. But then again, that would´ve only grow the flames bigger and I would most likely have been banned for that. :yep:

Anyways, I do understand Deputy, he obviously loves his country, as his reactions showed. I wouldnt want someone to point me the 'black pages' of finnish history, like the civil war we had in the beginning of the 1910 with it´s mass executions and all the crap that happened.

And to reply SkvyWvr´s post:

It´s easy to say that now, in 2006, when we know what Hitler did during the WWII. Remember, outside of Germany very very very few knew about the concentration camps until allies liberated them. So, if germany was the devil when Finland made the pact, it would be because germany was the one who started the war with it´s attacks on Poland, France etc. But would that make Stalin devil too? He attacked Finland just to get what he wanted (Tho, Finns still manned most of the land we lost in truce)? Stalin acted like Hitler did in the border of Poland, Stalin claimed that finns had fired artillery rounds across the border to Soviet Union and said that provocated Soviets to attack Finland. Finns didnt have any artillery in the area at that time and Soviet Union later admitted that the rounds were fired by it´s own artillery to make the attack to look like it was defensive action by Soviets. Also, remember, german troops were mainly stationed to Lapland, from where FINNISH troops drove them away.

Of course we took every help we could get, including help from France, UK, Sweden, Italy (which gave us 50 fighters, but germany didnt allow them to reach Finland) and Poland (Offered troops, but Sweden didnt allow them to move across Sweden to Finland).

You didnt see US in the list. Reason is: There was no declaration of war between Soviets and Finns, so in theory the countries werent in state of war. Without the american press, we wouldnt had any help from US. The press raised 6mil dollars to send for finns.

So, as you see, finns didnt get too much of a help from anywhere else than germany. Tho, there was few americans working as ambulance drivers in the frontlines. :up:


Yes, most of the battles took place in the Karelian Isthmus, BUT not all the troops were there. Basically, the whole east border of Finland was attacked in the start of the hostilities.

I have relatives who fought in WWI,WWII ( English, American and German ), Policing in Egypt,The Falkland conflict, gulf war 1990 and i have a mate who is in Iraq as i type this..If fighting/ Defending for your own country i have no problem with, But "World Wars i agree with Boris..The US and UK / Commonwealth forces are always spear heading coalition operations. Why? because we are the only ones dumb enough to do it.
Yes because in a state of war you will ALWAYS get the latest invovations to "be" better equiped/ stronger than the "Other" side.
When in peace newer inovations will be drip fed due to not being urgent.

:oops: I wish to apologize for the devil comment. You are right, your nation did what it had to do to survive a madman's attack. Again, please accept my apology.

Well this has been a VERY informative/amusing/bizarre discussion so far.
#1 I have found out that the US and England are fools and dumb for being willing to fight for freedom in other countries at the cost of the lives of their own troops.

#2 I have found out that no matter how much your country does for the world, some people will ALWAYS look at the negative side of things. I guess Liberalism is alive and well in the rest of thr world. That's the attitude of Liberals in the US. I thank God I'm a Conservative. And I thank God my country had the courage to fight for countries in Europe that now stab the US in the back. I wonder how many times you have to liberate France and certain other European countries before they learn to say "thank you"? I guess it will never happen.

#3 I learned that there is MUCH envy of the power and might of the US. Oh well...SOMEBODY has to be the policeman on the block and protect the little guys.
I sure don't see any Euro-countries (with the exception of England) doing that.
If it wasn't us, it would have been the Soviet Union. SH3 wouldn't even exist if that happenned. And most likely much of the internet wouldn't exist either. That's okay...you guys don't have to say thank you...i'll just say "you're welcome" on behalf of our "oppressive US regime" and leave it at that.

#4 Even though the US is always one of the first countries to "come to the rescue" when there are emergencies and natural disasters, with the most money and assistance, even to enemies of the US, people still don't like us. I guess there's just no pleasing some folks.

Some of you guys can't let go of the "military" train of thought when it comes to wars. The advancements I was referring to that occured during wartime involved the advancements in medical treatment, space exploration, and sources of energy.
All of which are used during peacetime to make our lifestyles better.

The simple fact is war has been with mankind since the first time the caveman clubbed his neighbor over the head for stealing his woman/land/water hole/etc. It will BE with us for a very long time to come. Get used to it and prepare for it. That way you won't be caught with your pants down when the jihadists or whatever other loonies start setting off dirty bombs or other nastiness in your area.

I believe in peace...PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER.

Dep

Whoa ok, I think I'll leave it at that. I won't be able to change your mind anyway. I don't hate the US, I'm just not afraid to criticise it nor anything else. Nothing is perfect, not even the US. Sure you're country has achieved a lot, and that's cool. But to say the US is the foundation of modern civilisation is a bit of a stretch.
I could say a million things to refute all you said, but why bother... we'd be here for days arguing.
You obviously love your country, and I shouldn't argue against that. Yes, your views are exteme right, but I guess thats what you get if you're from New Mexico. A lot of what you said is obviously a product of the society you grew up in, and I can't hold that against you. I'm not having a go at you at all, you have no idea how radical your views sound to me, having come from a different backround.

You ask yourself why some people don't like the US... it's because of things such as what you wrote above. It shows a lack of global awareness and implies a love of violence. Most people in other countries don't like that, trust me... and your irrational dislike of liberalism? Just more people to hate, just like commies or arabs right?
But like I said, it's not your fault.

"Whoa ok, I think I'll leave it at that. I won't be able to change your mind anyway. I don't hate the US, I'm just not afraid to criticise it nor anything else."

You shouldn't be afraid to criticise it. Nobody said it was perfect, including me. I have a good many gripes about things in the US and don't hesitate to complain to my political representatives. That's another part of what makes this country so great. :)


"Nothing is perfect, not even the US."

Never said it was perfect. But I'll take living here over anywhere else. Gotta be something good here, since so many people from other countries are willing to violate our immigration laws to come here and live. Or wait on long lists to do it legally.

"Sure you're country has achieved a lot, and that's cool. But to say the US is the foundation of modern civilisation is a bit of a stretch."

Never said that at all. Please don't insert words into my mouth. I said it was the protector of the civilized world, which it is.

"I could say a million things to refute all you said, but why bother... we'd be here for days arguing."

Feel free...unless the mods say don't. I keep hearing this "I could give you a million reasons" stuff, but I don't see ONE reason posted.

"You obviously love your country, and I shouldn't argue against that."

Nothing to argue about, I do love my country. Everyone should love their country :D

"Yes, your views are exteme right, but I guess thats what you get if you're from New Mexico."

Whoa pardner!!!!....you're WAY off on that one. New Mexico is a VERY left wing/Liberal state. I just moved here from Illinois (also a Liberal state) in January and am finding that out every day. Best thing New Mexico has is good pro-gun laws. Concealed carry is permitted in NM...forbidden in Illinois.

"A lot of what you said is obviously a product of the society you grew up in, and I can't hold that against you."

Actually, there were Liberals and Conservatives in the society I grew up in. I simply agree with the Conservatives who believe LESS government is better and I chose to support them.

"I'm not having a go at you at all, you have no idea how radical your views sound to me, having come from a different backround."

Yes, I suspect most of Europe has a strong Socialist leaning. I can see that from the posts of some folks on here. I apologize for calling Euros Liberals BTW...that's the term we use in the US for that type of thinking. I also suspect you guys believe Bill Clinton was the best President the US ever had :lol:

"You ask yourself why some people don't like the US... it's because of things such as what you wrote above."

You mean the truth? Yeah...some folks just can't handle it.

"It shows a lack of global awareness and implies a love of violence."

Ahhh yes...you are referring to the "New World Order" and the "globalizing" of the world. Yep...I'm dead against it. We have our US Constitution and I sure don't want the rest of the world dictating what my rights should be. I'm quite happy with the way our founding fathers set things up. If someone attacks us, we fight back. The only other country I know of that has that attitude is Israel. They have my highest respect and admiration.

"Most people in other countries don't like that, trust me... and your irrational dislike of liberalism?"

Irrational??? LOL...now THAT would be a large topic to discuss. I prefer to take care of myself. I don't need the government meddling in my life and all those social welfare programs that waste taxpayer money.

"Just more people to hate, just like commies or arabs right?"

Do I hate Commies? Not any more. We can thank Ronald Regan for eliminating the threat from that vermin. Do I hate Arabs? Nope. Do I believe the propaganda that Islam is a peaceful religion? No way. Just read translations of the Koran to prove to yourself that it isn't peaceful, no matter how much they may deny it on TV.

Dep

Yeah, ok... sorry, it's just that you sounded like some sort of gun toting, tabacco chewing, redneck yokel in your last post