Rebuttal about US Sub CO's
 

I am not sure what Admiral Rickover's being Jewish has to do with anything. Yes he was dogmatic, opinionated, and an all around Pain in the A... But he made Nuclear Power what it is today, as far as the US Navy is concerned.
I would suggest that anyone who believes US Sub Commanders are not aggressive should read Blind Man's Bluff, Whitey Mack and the USS Lampon is not the actions of a unaggressive skipper. Nor is the greatest intelligence coup of all time "Ivy Bells". At one time most of the pictures of Russian (Soviet Union) appearing in Jane's were compliments of the US Navy Submarine Force.
I met the Admiral on many occasions and I was interviewed by him for NR-1, thank god I was not accepted. I never liked him, most of us didn't, but we all respected and admired him.
Look at the US Navy's saftey record, and we can thank the Admiral for that. I will match our CO's againist any in the world. Attending the Perisaher course, of course they do, it is one if not the finest course in the world. I am happy the British Navy lets us.
You got a tough dangerous job, the United States Navy Submarine Force will do it.
Rickover was demanding and an all around jerk but he set a bar we all workd to reach, bitching as we went, but we did it and we are better men to day because of it. He worked as hard as we did for perfection, and it paid off.

Pride Runs Deep


Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)
one of Rickover's boys 1962-1981, yes I know he was dead by 81 but is influence was and still is felt and respected.

Rickover was not to messed with period.

As for the USN saftey record nuclear saftey its not the best the RN and frnech navies hold that infact in terms of length of nuclear subs in service britian clearly wins, the title for being the safest nuclear navy 0 losses.

Russia is not the worst either ! china is since the 1960's there has been some 20+ submarines go missing from chinas navy, dissapeard without a trace.

You may have a superior boat but a well trained crew and skipper in an inferior boat can cause nightmares.

I was talking plant safety
 

When I said safe I meant Reactor plant, the Thresher was a hull in the Aux Machinery Space, and Scorpion was due to a Battery explosion, although there are some who theorizes it could have been a faulty torpedo. I always leaned to ward the Battery myself.

[quote=LoBlo
but Electric Boat Company seems to know what its doing more than BAE.[/quote]

What a strange statement. Then you think that a company that get a national contract of billions of pound does know much of what it is doing. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Before you affirm such a thing, please show the hard facts that BAE is not competent in its job, or admit that it was a pure nationally biased statement, which is, in my point of view, meaningless.

I meant to type hull fitting.
 

I meant hull fitting and I am not blaming anyone or accusing anyone. It was a very sad accident and comes with the job. The hull fitting failing is common knowledge, and happens this happed at or near test depth.
Now for facts, I was involved in some of the testing after Thresher, to see what things we could change in our power plant operations to aid in this not ever happening again. It turns out we had overkill on the safe side and was far to restrictive, that was changed, and no I will not and cannot discuss it. Also from the Thresher sinking came sub safe, another area that had not kept up with the new capabilities of our subs. I have no idea what other Navies have in this area.
In regards to the Scorpion-everything from underwater sea mount, some one torpedoed her, lost depth control, to a battery explosion were out there on the rumor mill. The United States Navy made changes to how we handled the battery, I never saw the films of Scorpion and know we changed our operation of the ships battery, so apparently that what the experts determined caused the loss of the ship. In the case of Thresher I was allowed as others on the testing program to hear the tapes made by the vessel that accompanied Threser to sea, normal coming out of the shipyard.
Orm I was on Nuclear Subs from the early day (1962), and I have a lot of knowledge about US Subs. I know first hand our requirements and I know the training our people get, I did not any way question any other country's program.
I believe strongly in our programs, I trusted every crew I ever sailed with, and I will say now and always I never served with a CO who was not tops. I stated Rickover was difficult, he was driven, and his efforts and determination let the US send the first Nuclear Ship to sea. I truly do not believe anyone else could have done what he accomplished. But, he was about to be riffed when he took this program over and became the darling of the Congress of the United States. I also said I did not care for him, and was glad I was not accepted for NR-1, because that was his baby, but I did admire and respect the man.
Meeting Rickover's standard made me a better and smarter person than I thought I could ever be. It changed my life greatly and allowed me to become successful because of the work ethic drilled into me, and I am not alone there are 1000s of us around today.
I told you my qualifications to speak up, do you want to share yours?


Ronald E. Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Aplogy
 

Orm;
Your post was not directed to me so I put my foot in my mouth and my head in my Ass.
Please accept my profound apology and forgive me for sounding off as I did. I guess this old man needs to read things more closely, and to be less sensitive.

Truly sorry,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

No apology need Sir. I got from you an answer of quality, and I respect and recognize your knowledge in this area that way much more than mine. :up: I must admit that my only experience in the Navy is serving for one year the French Navy as a naval infantry.

I am only very careful with statements that show only the national pride of the individual. I think that in a forum with a mix of nationality, we should stay only by the facts and appreciate also that others can do better that ours.

Greetings

Naval Infantry
 

Thank you Orm;
Naval Infantry, is that the same type of force as our Marines? I was unaware the French Navy had that type of unit. Does the French Navy have units such as our SEALS?
I did correspond with a gentleman from France who was in the French Air Force, he really wanted to be in Subs. I lost touch with him.
Again thank you for your graciousness and I certainly learned a lesson, to read more carefully before I open my Battleship mouth thus overloading my rowboat butt. (American Navy humor for talking without the facts)

Thank you,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)
(sometimes known as cannon mouth):oops: :up:

Naval infantry in the French Navy is the step before the naval commando units like Seals. Naval infantry in French is "fusilier-marin". The naval infantry history go way back to the French Royal Navy as they were the onboard assault troops. Nowadays, there main duty are naval bases protection and police duty onboard warships. But, like I said previously, most of the youngs going there, target the commando units, which is not very easy.

*sigh* Looks like someone can't read....:nope: .

Read the *already* posted BBC article.

I'll summarize for you. Over 3 years behind schedule... over 1 billion dollars over budget... and still could not solve its design problems.... Needed to bring in Electric Boat personel and expertise to help solve its problems.

Reading... its a good skill to have.

I kawnt wead gowd

[quote=LoBlo
Reading... its a good skill to have.[/quote]

Just keep your sarcastic comments out of this thread, otherwise I am going to ask that your post should be deleted.

Orm,as a British taxpayer I have to fund the dross that Bae produces.Where would you like me to begin?SA 80 rifle,AEW Nimrod ......the list goes on!If you can get hold of it read a book called Lions Donkeysamd Dinosaurs.It has some very interesting chapters about the UK defence industry.For example the decision to build Apaches by Westland.The price ended up almost twice what the IDF paid for theirs!!

Just keep *your* sarcastic comments out of this thread, otherwise I am going to ask that your post be ridiculed. :lol:

I bet you guys £50 a november class submarine could sink a virginia.

Il tell you how in a few hours.

From what I understand, any submarine is capable of sinking any other submarine. I'll still bet that the Virginia would come out on top most of the time.

I'll bet an old 1970's Permit Class could sink any Akula (Gepard) for the same reasons. ;)

Yeah ok you got me, i was thinking about the november being just out side the port and catching the VA on its way out.

about the only thing I can see Va, having is a larger missle alpha strike over the brit

16 tomahawks to a max 6 from the brit

Exactly... the Astute may have more forward aimed tubes, but whens the last time a sub sank another sub or even a ship with torpedos? Falklands?

Ever since the Gulf War Tomahawks have been where its at... this isn't the cold war anymore.