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-   -   LWAMI4: Helos, Aircraft, and Submarines (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=95901)

porphy 07-21-06 05:31 PM

How deep can you dig into the database and doctrines Luft? :up: Really good stuff. :rock:
LWAMI4 will be great from what I read. I hope it will be here when I'm back from vaccation in late august. I think I will need some time to relax in front of a computer then.

Cheers Porphy

SwordfishCrew 07-22-06 08:48 AM

Luftwolf,

I think you are doing a fantastic job with the LWAMI mods.

Let me start my comments on this subject by saying that I have absolutely no experience in creating mods. Additionally, I appreciate your improvements to the P3 CM’s and the changes to the field of view on the sub SAM’s.

I have found that when I have been shot down it is normally after I passed over the sub and have not gained visual contact with the sub or the SAM. This is usually the result of the sub coming to the surface shortly after I have passed over it. Normally when I play the Radar is not auto-crewed. When the Radar is auto crewed it seems to take 3-4 sweeps before a new contact is reported.

Given that the P3 has an aft visual observer position I find that it is somewhat unrealistic that a sub can come to the surface and launch a SAM, in the aft sector, with a low probability of being seen by the P3.

On a second point. I have done some basic testing and found that a human player, in a sub, is able to gain visual contact on an a/c, as it comes into SAM range, regardless or the weather conditions, cloud cover or sea state. The same is probably true for the P3 vs a sub in the forward sector, but I have not tested this point.

If the visual detection range for the P3 is reduced against a surfaced sub, to accommodate the ability of the P3 to detect a mast, it could lead the situation where the sub can remain on the surface and wait for the P3 to come within firing range without the P3 being able to see the sub or the SAM. (Assuming the RADAR is off).

From a P3 player perspective I would like to see your new version of LWAMI improve the probability of visual detection in the aft sector to be at least 50% of the forward sector, and limit the subs ability see the P3 in poor weather, high sea states or high altitude, to the same degree the P3 visual range is decreased in the same conditions.

I am looking forward to any improvements in mast detection with the Radar. Most airborne ASW radars have different modes of operation. Is it possible to have the airborne ASW Radar ‘switch modes’ to go between a mode where the detection ranges are not changed and masts are not detectable and a mode where the detection ranges are reduced and masts are detectable (even better if the sweep was faster in the mast detection mode)?

Keep up the outstanding work. DW is much better with the changes you have accomplished and will accomplish in the future.

SwordfishCrew

Molon Labe 07-22-06 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordfishCrew
Luftwolf,

Given that the P3 has an aft visual observer position I find that it is somewhat unrealistic that a sub can come to the surface and launch a SAM, in the aft sector, with a low probability of being seen by the P3.

The "un-realism" here comes from the speed at which a player can get to the Sail Bridge station. Sure, they can surface the boat pretty quickly if they wanted to, and the guy can be waiting on the ladder with the launcher strapped to his back, but it's still going to take a few seconds to pop the hatch, climb out, and bring the weapon to ready. Maybe if the "reload" timer could be used for the first shot it would be an improvement? As far as spotting the sub from the aft though, LW's visual sensor plan will let you detect him as he's lying in wait now, so you're going to see him. And if you didn't plan on flying directly over him, there's still the IR camera.

Quote:

On a second point. I have done some basic testing and found that a human player, in a sub, is able to gain visual contact on an a/c, as it comes into SAM range, regardless or the weather conditions, cloud cover or sea state. The same is probably true for the P3 vs a sub in the forward sector, but I have not tested this point.
Are you saying that the scope should be disabled at high sea state and bad weather? You mean the waves washing over the scope, thick clouds and rain that impair our ability to see anything isn't good enough?

Quote:

If the visual detection range for the P3 is reduced against a surfaced sub, to accommodate the ability of the P3 to detect a mast, it could lead the situation where the sub can remain on the surface and wait for the P3 to come within firing range without the P3 being able to see the sub or the SAM. (Assuming the RADAR is off).
There would be some loss of efficiency of the visual auto-sensor to detect surfaced subs, but do you really think it would be fair to automatically detect submerged subs as far as you could if they were surfaced? The possibilily of a sub being able to surface and remain there is far-fetched, even with a change in visual detection range. The primary means of visually detecting the sub is the IR camera, and that will be unaffected. And as you alluded to, the radar can still be used to automaticaly detect surfaced subs. Is it really worth asking for LW to "fix" this so that submerged subs are automatically detectable out to the same range that surfaced subs are automatically visually detectable now, just so that you preserve the ability to automatically detect to automatically detect surfaced submarines that you already have two very realiable means to detect already? You might wish to consider that this tiny "benefit" to you has a rather large cost to others (being detected automatically while submerged at unrealistic ranges).

RedDevilCG 07-22-06 12:14 PM

Is this going to negatively affect diesels opperating in Litorial waters? I seam to recall often having to navigate at or even higher than PD to traverser harbours, shorlines etc....

Cheers,
RedDevil.

P.S. Great work Luft!

LuftWolf 07-23-06 04:37 PM

A quick update for you guys.

I have to consider all these changes very carefully... so I'm going to take a short break from active work to get some distance and perspective, and also to recharge myself a bit from the torpedo work.

I'm still working on this daily, but I may not have enough done to give you guys almost daily updates like I have been... so even if you don't hear anything for a few days, of course, I'm still chewing on it.

Just so you guys can plan things, I'm hoping to have LWAMI4 out around September 1st, so let's say 1st Quarter 9/2006. :)

It may be sooner than that, depending on how things go, but if it looks like things are going to run long, I'll select certain changes to be held for the next version and get an official mod version out for you guys.

Thanks for your continued support in this project!

Cheers,
David

PS I'm going to respond to some of the discussion in this thread when I get a chance to consider what has been discussed.

GhOsT55 07-23-06 08:14 PM

when u do the tihings on the mh-60 can u make the mad sensor visibale on its pylon cause when u look at a real one u can see it

UglyMowgli 07-24-06 03:46 AM

for mast detection using RADAR read this paper:

http://techdigest.jhuapl.edu/td1801/ousbourn.pdf

LuftWolf 07-24-06 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhOsT55
when u do the tihings on the mh-60 can u make the mad sensor visibale on its pylon cause when u look at a real one u can see it

Masts and cabels are not modelled for AI platforms, of which the MH60 is one when it is used as the FFG helo. The MAD sensor is visable when the MH60 is player controlled. This is dicated by the engine (that the AI doesn't use masts and cabels per se, but rather the sensor positions are abstracted by the engine based on the database settings).

@ MSG Thanks! That looks like it could be very helpful! :)

Cheers,
David

Phullbrick 07-25-06 03:30 AM

Very interesting document posted by Galileo :up:


Luftwolf enjoy your break and relax ;)


ps : OHP rules ! :rock:

GhOsT55 07-25-06 03:08 PM

ok but this is out of place but can u up the cap of the harpoon load on the ffg?


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