This is your own particular (Buddhist) interpretation of His teachings. Which is fine, since religion is a very personal thing. You seem to want to insist that everyone comform to your own particular take on this thing though, whether it be Islam or Christianity (which is ironic, since you've stated already that you're an Atheist)... your certitude makes you sound like some kind of Zen Pope :lol:.

No, but I insist on people being able to found their views and opinions on thiese things by their own experiences, not by having red something here or there, being rasised in a tradition or being skilled theological debaters, and this is where most spiritual searchers do fail miserably for a variety of reasons - that I say on the basis of experience with several hundred students over the last years. Especially fundamentalists are highly skilled in quoting their texts, may it be the Koran, may it be the Old Testament, may it be Duffy Duck. And time and again you see them being completely unable to detach themselves from the dot on top of the "i" and to move beyond the written word. Simpy saying "I believe this", "I am of that opionion" is allowed by law, but by content it is worth nothing, and it certainly is not good enough for me. Encouraging people to trust in themselves and teach them how to ask questions about themselves that again they can answer themselves, by focussing on their own means, lifes and senses, is a far better job. Where someone has no doubts of what he believes to know, there cannot be knowledge, but only blindness. People do not need answers. They need to learn to ask the right questions. No doubt - no clearer insight. No clear insight - no freedom. Period.

BTW, I am a "believer" of that theory (with some well-founded indications) that during his early years as an adult, before the timecount of the Gospels set in, and with the destruction of the Indian culture by Islam still several centuries away, Jesus probably travelled to India and probably met Buddhists there and learned from them. The similarities and congruencies between their teachings are too massive and too huge in size and detail as if it wold be a reasonable thought that this only is coincidental. Both also had the same effect, reformating existing theological systems (Judaism, hinduism), brandmarking the social injustice commited by the religious establishement, and push for overcoming an understanding of the Absolute that is separated from us or from anything else, and to replace believing with experiencing and insight, and moving completely beyond idols, words, and images. So when you label me as either a Christian or a Buddhist, you miss me completely. And when you name me as both, you are wrong again. And when you say I am neither this nor that and just be myself, again you miss me completely. Your categories of thinking are wrong. Give them up. Move beyond that level.

On your referring to Atheism. you either believe in a man-made idol or tradition, then you get stuck, forever, because you eternally believe that you have alreeady gotten the best status there can be. (That is the reason why the declared end of history has led Islamic community to centuries of stagnation and stand-still). Or you give it up and start thinking yourself. then you have a chance to re-envent the wheel, you have a chance to fail and suffer, and you have a chance to move beyond the blindness that dominated your starting point. I prefer to take the risk instead of being satisfied with a guarabntee for a constant stand-still. Atheism just means the rejection of theistic idols. It is an -ism that can come along without depending on theistic Gods. Not more this term originally means.

That's "Daffy Duck".

Shoot him now! Shoot him now!

Old, but relevant:

A man and a vicar where playing golf one afternoon. The man was much closer to the hole than the vicar. He took a shot... and missed.
"God dammit, missed the bugger."
The vicar suddnly shrieked: Do not swear or God will strike you down!"
He took one and missed. Then the man took a second one and... missed.
"God dammit, missed the bugger!"
"Do not swear or god or god will strike you down!"
Then the man's ball plummeted into the bushes, and he went into a fit of swearing.
"Oh dammti, bugger ****, crap f*cking hell! **** b*llocks–"
Then gods face appear in the sky, and a bolt of lightning crashed down and deep - fried the vicar. God then exclaimed:"God dammit, missed the bugger!"

Skybird, why do you insist on making your posts hard to read?

First the lack of paragraphs, now posting stuff in blue text on a board where most people use the cool grey format making it nearly impossible to make out. Why?

:rotfl:

One evening an old Cherokee Indian told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said “my son, the battle is between 2 wolves inside us all. One is EVIL… it is anger, envy, self-pity, jealousy, greed, sorrow, regret, arrogance, resentment, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other is GOOD… it is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather… “which wolf wins?” The old Cherokee simply replied, “the one you feed.”

Im not aware of any trouble with colour. Formatting: I just copied the text quortes over from the existing word document, there it is printed in two columns per Din A4 page. anything else was done from this damn board software (diffrent letter size, bold print).

But if you want it I can give you the complete document - then you have it as pdf, black on white, and no dofficluty to read it :smug:

I am using silver-grey forum layout, btw. Easier to read. :lol:

I'm with August on this one. The blue text you use is almost impossible to read on the grey background. Since I also use the grey background I often just ignore anything in blue that you type.

The problem is you are pasting HTML tags into the message text box. Most of us here are pasting non-formatted text. This may have to do with your profile control settings for composing posts. Too advanced a setting is most likely the cause. Join us unsophisticates! :cool:

But I have black letter colour here myself, and the quotes are almost black-blue on light grey, very easy to read and as close to black-on-white as it can get. I do not even have a clue what you all complain about :-? The board software has detemrined the colour change from black to dark-black all by itslef. I have done nothing, believe me, and to my best knowledge I have no special settings activated, and my browser settings are at medium so that I have access to all formatting possebilities.

What I find anpoying is those links that appear as bright yellow on white background - completely impossible to recognize without inverting the text, then it is light blue on black.

This is what it appears as on my monitor. What is it that people cannot read? I haven't chnaged the text quotes I inserted a bit, they are right from word, black on white, only the column format has changed, and the colour from black to dark black-blue.

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4465/00327ni.jpg

You're using the "haylazblue" forum setting (which can be changed from the pulldown menu in the bottom left corner of the page) which I think is the default. I, and others I guess, are using the "SmartDark" setting instead, which resembles the old forum look closer. With this setting the background is a very dark grey with white text and the dark blue you use (it is dark in the SmartDark setup) is very difficult to pick out against the almost black background.

Then why does the board software edit a text to be displayed in such a bad colour, then. I have not done it, both in Words and on the board I use defaults.

Next time I will copy a text from Word to notepad, and then insert it from there. Maybe this helps.

I still don't like the new board software.

:damn: :damn: :damn:
Colouzr control is a big mess with this nonsens software. Just look what it results in when I try to edit the text and chnage the colours. I say light blue, and it becomes black, I say green and it turns red, and white, I say red, and it turns green.
:damn: :damn: :damn:
I'm missing the old board.

Paste and copy does not work when editing, too.:down:

Jesus also said "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life. No man comes to The Father but by me".

I'm not going to argue the rightness or wrongness of sayings like that, but it is pretty specific. Believe it or not, as you wish, but don't try to say he was a good man who showed us the right way to live our lives. He claimed to be divine. He may have been that, or he may have been a liar and a charlatan, but one thing he was not was another prophet, or holy man. He claimed to much for himself to be that.

Or so his biographers said. Some claim they made most of it up.

And as was said by the Rev. Roger Waters (yes THAT Roger Waters)

What God Wants, Part 1

What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
The kid in the corner looked at the priest
And fingered his pale blue Japanese guitar
The priest said
God wants goodness
God wants light
God wants mayhem
God wants a clean fight
What God wants God gets
Don't look so surprised
It's only dogma
The alien prophet cried
The beetle and the springbok
Took the Bible from its hook
The monkey in the corner
Wrote the lesson in his book
What God wants God gets God help us all
God wants peace
God wants war
God wants famine
God wants chain stores
What God wants God gets
God wants sedition
God wants sex
God wants freedom
God wants semtex
What God wants God gets
Don't look so surprised
I'm only joking
The alien comic cried
The jackass and hyena
Took the feather from its hook
The monkey in the corner
Wrote the joke down in his book
What God wants God gets
God wants boarders
God wants crack
God wants rainfall
God wants wetbacks
What God wants God gets
God wants voodoo
God wants shrines
God wants law
God wants organized crime
God wants crusade
God wants jihad
God wants good
God wants bad
What God wants God gets

What God Wants, Part II

Do you believe in a better day
Do you have a faith in a golden way
If you do then we must come together this day
Come together as one united
Television audience
Brought together by the sound of my voice
United united financially united socially
United spiritually and all possible ways
Through the power of money
And the power of your prayers
What God wants God gets God help us all
God wants dollars
God wants cents
God wants pounds shillings and pence
God wants guilders
God wants kroner
God wants Swiss francs
God wants French francs
Oui il veut des francs francais
God wants escudos
God wants pesetas
Don't send lira
God don't want small potatoes
God wants small towns
God wants pain
God wants clean up rock campaigns
God wants widows
God wants solution
God wants TV
God wants contributions
What God wants God gets God help us all
God wants silver
God wants gold
God wants his secret
Never to be told
God wants gigolos
God wants giraffes
God wants politics
God wants a good laugh
What God wants God gets God help us all
God wants friendship
God wants fame
God wants credit
God wants blame
God wants poverty
God wants wealth
God wants insurance
God wants to cover himself
What God wants God gets God help us all

What God Wants, Part III

Don't be afraid, it's only business
The alien prophet sighed
The vulture and the magpie took
The cash box from its hook
The monkey in the corner
Wrote the figures in his book
Crazed the checkout lady's fingers
Flash across the till
And the captain posts the menu of the day
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

Christ, it's freezing inside
The veteran cries
The hyenas break cover
And stream through the meadow
And the vet rolls in
To his bottle of gin
So he picks up a stone
That looks like a bone
And the bullets fly
And the rivers run dry
And the fat girls sigh
And the network anchor persons lie
And the soldier's alone
In the video zone
But the monkey's not watching
He's slipped out to the kitchen
To pile the dishes
And answer the phone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve Jesus also said "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life. No man comes to The Father but by me".

I fail to see in how far what you quote is in contradiction to what I said. He said "I am the way." That means "Do as I do, follow my example." He sdaid "I am the truth." That means "The example I give you in my life is the true way. Trust me." He said "I am the Life.", here he refers to the life beyond the superficial existence we usually live, he refers to what I usually call our true being, our true self, the devine essence of our existence. By that he tells us that the example of living and doing that he laid out by himself is the way to realize our true divine nature. This true divine nature he often calls The Father. "No one comes to the Father but by me": no one can hope to realize his true inner essence and divine nature as long as he does not brake thorugh to an understanding of existence that Jesus has tought by setting an example himself. Again I quote him like this:

“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.” (Luke 13, 24-25);
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14,26);
“But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” (Matthew 7,14);
“Another disciple said to him, ‘Lord, first let me go and bury my father.’ But Jesus told him, ‘Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.’ (Matthew 8,21-22);
“Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels." (Mark 8,34-38).

All these saying are not contradictory at all, they play with the same theme, in different verbal variations. One of the main differences between Jesus and the pharisees understanding of scriptures, olike I described fundamentalists in general: the pharisees sticked to the word and were not able to move beyond it , they took the scripture word by word. Jesus, depüemnding on expressing what he wanted to tell in the same language, needed to talk in metaphors. As long as people do not see the metaphoiric nature of the language of the Gosples, they remain a weired book of miracle and wonder. but of what use could it be that he was able to do wonders - while we are not?

"If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me (follow my example)." - A hint cannot be any more obvious. Why must I deny myself, if by Jesus cricification I am already saved? Why can't I stay then the man/identity/self-perception/ego that I used to be, if the bill already has been payed? And even more, as an implication: why should I take care for anything, if there is no need anymore to live a right life and take care of my deeds - since I am already forgiven? why rules, ethics, good acting, when I am already given card blanche and general amnesty - for crimes that I will do in the bfuture and even canot dream of right now? This understanding of Jesus' death already being the saving of ourselves is filled with contradicting implications. And again I quote from that text of mine, and again it is Nietzsche, oine of the most unforgiving enemies of these flawed understanding of christians religion:

Quote:

Originally Posted by What it's about When the centre of gravity of life is placed, not in life itself, but in "the beyond" - in nothingness - thenone has taken away its centre of gravity altogether. The vast lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, all natural instinct - henceforth, everything in the instincts that is beneficial, that fosters life and that safeguards the future is a cause of suspicion. So to live that life no longer has any meaning: this is now the "meaning" of life… Why be public-spirited? Why take any pride in descent and forefathers? Why labour together, trust one another, or concern one's self about the common welfare, and try to serve it? Merely so many "temptations," so many strayings from the "straight path." – “One thing only is necessary"… That every man, because he has an "immortal soul," is as good as every other man; that in an infinite universe of things the "salvation" of every individual may lay claim to eternal importance; that insignificant bigots and the three-fourths insane may assume that the laws of nature are constantly suspended in their behalf - it is impossible to lavish too much contempt upon such a magnification of every sort of selfishness to infinity, to insolence. […]The "salvation of the soul" - in plain English: "the world revolves around me." … […] To allow "immortality" to every Peter and Paul was the greatest, the most vicious outrage upon noble humanity ever perpetrated.

I hope colour works better now. I realize that now the font selection is messed up.I

From the "Is nothing Sacred?" file, here are a couple of my favorite National Lampoon covers from many years ago.




http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/9...ntamig28tk.gif


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8391/chepie9fk.jpg

I see that colour control and fomnt selection is seriously messed up, but at least it should be visible, no matter of your screen has dark or light background.

I also realize that this discussion touches some elementary basics and that I could quote from that work of mine, but with loosing the general context of these quotes, then. So I will finish the translation, and will put it up next week, when I am finished. that way it will be a more complete set of thoughts, and reasons why to think so. until then, I will not adress this theme anymore.

The text in question had been written by me originally in German, several years ago. I did not want to do it, but I received requests from students of mine time and again, they wanted something that they can take in their hands and carry home. the risk with written stuff like this is very high, I never liked to replace practical example and actual practicing with theological disputes and wise monologues when I held those meetings until last year, but I finally realized that one needs to pick people up where they actually are, not where one wishes them to be. I currently translate it because I was asked to do it by two Canadian and one American trainees who will leave Germany now and return home and want to take some sort of guideline with them. they asked me to translate it since they were not that fluid in German. So that I do it, originally had nothing to do with this board's usual discussions.

I'll set it up next week when I am finished. What you then do with it, or not do with it, is your own business and your own freedom. ;)