It is rampant worldwide.

Ideas in themselves are powerless. In fact they are much preferable to the alternative, which is ignorance.

No ideas only inform the choices people make, and they are at least as likely to make the "wrong" choice out of ignorance as they are out of having too many ideas. And in any case, it is ultimately the action and not the idea that has consequences. Where you put the blame on Islam for the world's ills I'd be much more likely to put the blame on ignorance. Ignorance by virtue of people who are born and kept into a state of ignorance by the theocrats who enforce this ignorance through tyranny.

By the way, you should read 1984 Skybird. As you are equating action with the same kind of "thought crime" that Orwell warned of in the fictional Big Brother world the book is set in.


Am I the one spitting on it? The enlightentment, and all of those things you speak of there, were driven by novel ideas (at the time) that lifted society out of the primitive conditions that oppression and enforced ignorance had forced them into because people had known no other way, no alternatives.

That is their right in enlightened societies such as ours that permit freedom of religion. Freedom to choose Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Wicca, or whatever else they would choose so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. If there is anyone in these threads who supports that, I would say it is me as I'm not the one who would begin to take this right away starting with Islam; for though it may begin there, it surely would not stop there.

I'm not so familiar with the EU, as I don't live in Europe. What is the EU disease that I represent?

I give it up. Hopeless. Against such solid determination to grant others the right to overthrow us and label that "freedom for all", both reason and argument, even historical example, must necessarily fail. Islam is harmless, Europe does not need an idealistic identity of it's own - that is the EU desease.

Read the comments from Muslims at the end of this news from today:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatc...6.php#comments

Probably these Muslims commenting there are not representative for Islam, and as usual they just misinterpret their Koran and misunderstood Sharia...? Maybe we should teach Muslims in Koran and Hadith and Sharia. Oh, wait, we already tried that. I wonder what has come of that.

Here in Canada, the multi-culturalism that you regard as the "EU disease" has existed here forever and is not considered a "disease". Rather, it is part of our own distinct identity as Canadians. I guess that is part of why I'm more optimistic about other cultures and don't feel threatened by them the way you seem to be by Islam ;)

When you tolerate the intolerable, it becomes a disease.

Canada faces 'jihad generation'.

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.;)

Let's see how healthy you Canadians are.

Hot off the press: Sistani to Muslims in Canada: obey Canadian laws..."insofar as religious values are not ridiculed".

Islam does not tolerate multi-culti. Islam only tolerates islami-culti. Other culti is a target of subjugation in case of a theistic target, killing in case of an atheistic target. Islam and multi-culti are excluding each other. Plain and simple, proven by the example set by over thousand years of history and the explicit demands and teachings by Muhammad. Practice corresponds with theology, without significant exception. Like the EU, Canada is sitting on a time-bomb. Maybe it will blow up a little bit later than the EU, but it will. Thanks to people who do not want to understand the difference between Islam and true mutli-culti, and do not want to realize the aggressive nature of this sly "guest" they are hosting. Relations of this kind are one-sided and parasitic and usually end with the death of the host.

Well I think it is time that all these isalmiwahtever threads had their own forum to go into, whatever the title they descend into the same opinions as written by the usual suspects getting involved.

The subject at hand condemns the Christian Church for terrorizing native Canadians, however, he has no problem with a multi-culturalism that allows Muslims to form their own ghettoes where they can terrorize their women, treat them like objects, arrange marriages and kill for honor. He does not feel threatened by such culture, rather, it's part of his distinct identity as a Canadian. ;)

I suggest everybody take a look at French journalist and writer Caroline Fourest, she recently published a book called "La Tentation Obscurantiste". She writes at the Charlie Hedbo, a magazine that printed the Mohammed Cartoons in refusal of automatic-censorship. She's also in the Pro-Choix and also wrote the book "Frère Tariq" which introduced me to her (a book that proves Tariq Ramadan is a "Moderate" who speaks what Europeans want to hear but supports Islamists and even has connections with terrorist groups).

It's about the European Socialists who refuse to be anti-totalitarian, to recognize the totalitarian nature of Islam, and oppose it.

The point is, those who pretend not to choose between Democracy and Islamic totalitarianism, already chose not to defend Democracy.

To her, Europeans commit the same mistake commited in the days of Stalinism, while some are only "usefull idiots" (her words), others outright flirt with the sharia for it's resemblance with the dictatorship of the proletariat.

In their refusal to recognize the nature of Islam, any "progressive" and "enlightened" groups within Islam are mixed with the majoritarian (Bolshevik) field and obscured.

And then the anti-totalitarian leftists are labeled as islamophobes, racists, bushists, sharonists, traitors, etc., when in fact they are only denouncing the totalitarianism of Islam in the name of universalism.

She says: "Not saying Who is Who is taking the risk of putting everybody in the same bag". To her the USA is a Democracy even with Bush's Christian fundamentalists while Muslim fundamentalists openly dream with a global theocratic dictatorship.

To her the world cannot be reduced to a struggle between Bush and Osama and the 9/11 attacks were not an attack against the USA alone, but against each and every Democracy in the world. When the real danger of Islamic fundamentalism is denied, part of the Left hides behind a false neutrality that never criticizes Islam, but attacks those who dare doing so. She distinguishes a Left that recognizes Islam as a totalitarian threat and another which believes it to be a progressive libertation movement.

The "usefull idiots" of Islam usually also fall blind for cultural relativism too, which leads to the acceptance of any behavior or action originated from a Muslim. Sexism, homophobia and totalitarianism are taken as folklorical and considered harmless, so these "real Muslims" are prefered to the laic cultural Muslims who are not sufficiently folklorical. She includes Ayaan Hirsi Ali as one of the laic cultural Muslims who refuse to be sacrificed in the altar of multiculturalism.

To end with a phrase of hers: "Is it possible to fight for another world in the company of fundamentalists who also dream with another world of their own?"

You're full of crap scandium, yet again.

You do not represent even a fraction of Canadians or their viewpoints. In fact you are probably in the smallest minority of all Canadians who so solidly support fanatical, or even terroristic muslims.

Most Canadians do not like radical muslims and would readily send them packing to where they came from. You are the exception, don't go spouting that Canadian multiculturalism includes supporting terrorists (Which a hell of a lot of muslims are).

Nice strawman. Never have I supported terrorists, Muslim or otherwise. Let alone said that Canadians do. :roll:

I would agree that there is a problem with Canada's immigration system - well, no, actually there is a problem with unsystematic immigration. I can tell you safely if everyone went through the 'point system' on going here, no evil extremist Muslim immigrants that you're so afraid of would slip through.

I essentially agree with scandium that demonizing absolutely all Muslims is wrong. I will agree that there are some very disturbing things in the scripture, laws and from the religious leaders.

But you know what? I work and study with Muslims almost on a daily basis - not the extremist kind, but exclusively what I would describe as somewhere between 'moderate muslims' to 'almost-non-practicing muslims'. And I assure you, that I would rather work with THOSE particular kinds of Muslims than quite a few christians, jews, atheists, and even obsessed cultist buddhists that I've (rather directly) known. I think they have every right to be in my society, as long as they act as I've observed them act, whereas conversely, there's many perfectly native nutjobs that I think don't deserve that right.

I'll concede to banning Islam, but the next day I'll ask for banning of all other religions, and I'd better damn get it. :-?

Call me a spoiled socialist. Maybe I am. But I'm looking past all proposed solutions and somehow I'm not getting a rosy picture of Europe/the West without Islam. Why should I?

I think after a while in agreement with the alarm-ringers, I'll firmly go back to my old camp, which is my old camp of 'Islam should be the least of your worries right now'. At least that's what my observations of suggestions on how to deal with it are; there is just no reasonable approach in this whatsoever. The "them or us" thing will never work for me, firstly because I don't see a "us" anywhere around here. I see a "them", but I'm not going against "them" to get my nose bloodied while "us" are busy doing a lot of stupid and self-destructive things.