Realism is in the eye of the player.

I enjoy playing as historically accurate as I can..but only to a certain point.I for one like the idea and think it is great for those that enjoy that,but I doubt I would use it.For me there comes a point where to much realism takes the fun out of the game.And this is just over that line for my personal tastes.

I may give it a try sometime just for giggles and may even learn to enjoy it but it is also just to much for me to have to edit that huge RND file..LOL.

he he!! it's nice to be able to pick and choose which aspects of realism we can enjoy isn't it--
which is precisely why the whole issue is bunk---;)

Brilliant idea CB..! After the minelayer mod, now this.

What next?

:up: same with SH2 really there is a never ending list of things that can be attempted--especailly if you come in from a slightly askew angle--this is the trouble with some realism mods --they tend to have tunnel vision..
the issue with SH3 is really the file structure--most files contain dozens of references to various different aspects of the game--where as SH2 tended to have one file for each element- so making and releasing mods was a much more straight forward affair ---
i dont bother much with SH3 moding because what ever i produce will in evitably p*ss some one off some where because it will require the over-writing of a mod they have constructed -even if the two mods are entirely unrelated--
so i haven't bothered much except for my own indulgence--
now i've solved the main element of the game for me which was the Destroyer/convoy escort behaviour in a full and satisfying manner--
now I'm enjoying the game so i am getting round to trying out ideas i have been too uninterested to bother with before--

next on the list i suppose once i completed the modification of my campaign to use serg's wolfpack subs--will be the weather--because that really has to be moddable up to something more interesting--
one of th things me and Col7777 worked on for SH2 was the weather--
folks had been playing it for years and never realised that the weather could be made changing and dynamic--Col7777 sussed how to write dynamic changing weather into the campaign--it was far FAR superior to the weather in SH3
basically you could write the weather into the campaign in exactly the same way as you would write a convoy--bad weather front size rain cloud types etc located at lat long etc etc travelling at 4 knots north west--and you could have unlimited numbers of weather fronts all dynamicly moving across the map--

he he! i spent a month writing a dynamic campaign generator (with rossbachs help) with fully implemented dynamic weather including accurate weather reports on all weather fronts--size location type movment rain speed etc etc

no one was interested in that one either---peasants..:rotfl: :know:

Isn't that the way real wolfpacks attack?, shadowing the convoy and hit when all in attack range?, If you can pull this out, it will be amazing :o

Ref

yes..come to think of it your right!:up:

i'm still looking for Col7777's thread with details of how to add in the subs to the convoy ship formations--

Great progress CB :up:

We all just need to convince you to do it :lol:

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I regret that I am having trouble following the argument of this thread.

CB has proposed (and demonstrated) that it is possible to move an AI U-boat along an empty convoy track (more-or-less), giving signals as it does so. This is certainly a clever idea, but surely it can not be called realistic. Real convoys did not run on railway tracks - even approximately.

There is then a secondary suggestion that the AI U-boat should move with the convoy. Since the convoys are randomly generated, the AI U-boat *must* be part of the convoy if its signals are to have any meaning. There may be a way of doing this with a German AI U-boat, but if so you are merely changing red marks of the convoy's progress on the map for blue marks. Is this worth all the labour involved in making the changes?

I suspect that the AI U-boats will have to be made neutral or even Allied to keep up with the convoy while not being attacked by it. So you may not even improve the colour of the markings on the map.

It may be that I have failed to understand a key part of CB's proposal, in which case apologies and I await your enlightenment. But presumably other people have the same difficulty as me, which is why there is so little interest.

However, I would definitely be interested in a mod to change weather patterns (excluding a change occurring only at the beginning of the patrol). If I could fix just one thing in the hard code of SH3, it would be to change those infuriating fog-and-gale patterns that feel like they last forever and are hopelessly unrealistic (if I may use the 'realism'-word) for such extended periods.

Stiebler.

The AI uboats wont be attacked by convoy until its within your sensor range as thats when game loads the convoy into the 3d engine - it doesnt exist as a 3d convoy till you discover it
From what I gather CB is not proposing putting a wolfpack with every convoy and even the ones which have AI boats may deviate as dictated in the random layer so you might still not come across them
I think the thought behind this is the only convoys that will show on the map are radio reports from uboats and even then you are not guaranteed to find it - and if he does succeed in putting in a wolfpack when you arrive at the convoy you may find it already attacked by AI wolfpack
Either way you wont be the only boat on scene at convoy which is kinda cool
Single merchants wouldnt be affected but wouldnt show on map either if the changes CB proposed at the start are put in so would be a lot more realistic than the system now
Currently trying to download GW unchange and addon so will give it a go then

Edit
AI boats not running along an empty convoy route but its added to the convoy so if the convoy spawns ( as not 100% ) then uboat will as well and in effect be following convoy relaying radio reports back to BDU and other boats

It has nothing to do with the railway tracks but with some U-boats spotting/shadowing a convoy spawned by the game and communicating this info to BDU. Therefore, such a situation is indeed realistic regardless the tricks it is created with.

How can the AI U-boat be attacked if it is not even 3D-rendered? The Allied convoy including German AI U-boat as a part of the convoy will follow the waypoints until it has to be 3D-rendered close to the player U-boat. Only then the whole action will start. The AI-sub will attack ships in convoy and DDs will attack the sub. Very good idea by Col7777.

;) i knew the old realism angle would get new folks coming into the thread-- works every time--all you have to do is make some claims regarding realism and bingo away it goes--well at least it's created some interest---you have to have a basic understanding of how the convoys work within the RND layer of the campaign--
lets just say here you have an alternative to the stock method of contact reports--
that uses genuine AI driven german u-boats as your only source of map information regarding convoys--- most but not all of the time that information will be worth taking note of--the convoy may be ahead of the contact report location or it may be behind--but it will be along that route if the convoy has spawned at mission start---

the whole thing is a question of balance--a question of gameplay---

time and time again folks allways assume i dont know what i'm talking about-lol--i've been at this lark a long time you know

Well, as someone who enjoyed yr work on Sh2 and is genuinly interested in this idea i say go for it. I always assume that contact reports are coming from U-boats anyway so to have actual AI driven boats out there getting involved is a great, great idea and so obvious it hurts.

Aside from anything else it will add to that feeling of a genuine naval war being fought out beyond the confines of your boat. Good one guys - I'm certainly interested. :up:

Hey CB

Am I right in thinking this will already be randomised in the game via probabilities or is it something I could possibly set up and control via randomised events?

Cheers guys
yes it is full configurable for each sub via the probabilitys both for inclusion at mission load and for the number and probability of contact reports--same allso goes for the wolfpack subs attached to the convoy it self---
one of the potentail nice touches for this will be that the shadowing sub will get you close to the convoy--
and as you get within the 3D loading range as serg' has said--
combat will begin--and fairly soon one way or another something will get sunk--either a sub or a ship--and bingo a sunken ship icon should appear on the map--either blue or red depending on who sunk who--bingo you now know where the convoy is---

so your entire location and attacking of a convoy is controlled and assisted by german u-boats--

if that does not appeal to folks i have absolutely NO IDEA why they are playing this game in the first place lol:lol: :hmm:

I like this very much and I also would prefer this type of convoy tracking than the already implemented one :rock:







Now without trying to go off topic here but could this not also open up the lifeboat mod serb has. Can they not be added to follow the same convoy as the Ai U-boat and then spawn some time later.

Even if at a very rare occurance probability:rock:

Hell AOTD vibe here!

I for sure would love to see this kind of mod! The only thing is; who's up for the task to do it! It's a Boot-load of work!
:yep:

The lifeboats would look perfectly natural if the wolfpacks attcked a convoy as by the time you arrived its possible a ship has been sunk already

Cool idea

Wow - I would love to have a built in distraction for the escorts - might be just the ticket for the wicked new sensors hehe. Too bad mucking about with SCR and RND is non intuitive to me.

well here we have the problem---the guys working on the uber duper super duper mods don't buy the sort of gameplay this mod produces--it's all a bit too esoteric and "airy fairy" for them--which is why i never ever use uber duper super mods--they bore me to tears--

i like the esoteric stuff--and my own version of the game often turns out to be far tougher difficulty wise than most realism mod sets, ironically--tho this is not deliberate--

but one thing is for sure i aint doing it...i'll be implementing it in my own campaign files but im not going to work on any one elses--you'll just have to canvas the producers of the uber duper super mods to see if you can get them to write it into their campaigns--

beyond that it isn't going to happen--that's the way the modding situation has developed for SH3---which is understandable in some ways because of the way the game stores it's settings in a few large files rather than lots of small ones ala SH2--catch 22 really

CB... as a fan of your work from the SH2 days , I think people might just be absorbing how this change in concept would affect the game as most know it. From my perspective SH3 has a least 4 differents type of play ( From stock game with a few visual mods to manual shooting only at night while having a red light only to light up your computer board and all parts inbetween lol) Give guys time:yep: ps your help with torpedo dud percentages has spawned a totally new SH2 game over at Atlantika thanks again:rock:

Vader