Well, I didn't see any sign of lag in that replay, nor did the torpedo/SLMM/whatever it was appear to act as a decoy. The fact that I couldn't get the behavior to repeat is not exclulpatory, it just means I can't figure out what's going on yet. (Had I been able to repeat it, I might have been able to see what's going on in debug mode).

If it is the case that there is something quirky in the doctrine that is being taken advantage of, then I would not file this under "using what you have to survive."

Or it could be that you can see it only if you have change yourself some parts of the doctrine?

That would,'t work I think, because the game uses the hosts doctrine, and that was Swims.

Anyone who uses a method, not meant by the game designers (and thus unrealistic), to evade torpedos/sink ships etc. Is using an exploit. Eploitation of bugs is cheating.

Yes, you do everything you can to survive in a war...but this is not war. Don't know if you noticed? ;) Nothing will happen to you if you get downed by a gaming torp, except lose a bit of pride.

Anyone who can't handle being bettered in a game and has to resort to cheating, is pathetic. My opinion.

I think the replay is fairly clear in regards to what was done.
As for it being reproducible, I haven't had the time to set up the dive conditions and try it myself.
My personal opinion is that he has figured out a way to exploit the torpedo homing doctrine.
As for wether or not that is "cheating", that is up to the individual, I guess.
For the record, the only reason I became suspicious is that the same person has been mentioned now a few times in these forums for "curious" activity.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"

The point is that you have no proof.
If we start accusing everybody just because some wierd things happens in DW (modded or vanilla) soon we won't have anybody to play against.

Now if this behaviour was reproducible that would be a good sign of "cheating" but as the situation stands now the guy should just have the benefit of the doubt.

In the end I think that before going "public" with outcries of the type : some wierd things happened but are not reproducible -> someone's using a cheat,
why not keep the issue "private", have a number of senior players or well respected players have a look at the situation and try to find the cause of this behaviour.
If nothing conclusive is found no need to render it public.
If on the other hand you have scientific proof of cheating going on then
by all means make the situation publicly known to the community.

Ok, I didn't even know the person in question was a member of this forum. I just thought it was a random bod. Otherwise I would've been more tactful.

Though my rant was a more general one, anyway.

As I have stated a few times, I don't think this is a cheat in the technical sense; to be honest, my intent was to let others in the community, including alot of people I like, know about this.
If I see a tactic that I think is "dirty", I will let the world know, so we can come up with a way to defeat it.
In the past I did the same thing about a sub sitting in 30 feet of water when I was in a P3.

Since I was the host, my understanding is that it can't be a database switch, so I just feel it's a "dirty" tactic, and I let people know.
If they choose to dive with the person now, it's up to them.
EDIT: A "friend" of this individual just let me know that he admits he was using a SLMM.

Well I feel I have to apologise again to the person concerned...wish I knew beforehand the person in question was a forum member. Can't imagine anyone here cheating.
How about making it more pleasurabe to lose? Naked babe comes up on screen when a torpedo blows your sub to pieces..? :hmm:

I disagree about a need to apologize, sir.
I see the tactic of driving in front of an SLMM is taking advantage of a torp seeker code that Sonalysts is either unaware of or didn't forsee the possibility.
My understanding is that a real MK48 would probably kill the sub anyways, and go right by the SLMM.
Therefore, I see this as an exploit of an inherent weakness in the torp seeker doctrine.
To me, that is dirty. Maybe not technically a cheat, but not my style of play.
I see no need to apologize for pointing out that some players
(1 at least) use this tactic.

It could be the SLMM was above layer, and the sub below, and torps are just spoofed.:hmm:
In that way, it's just a tactic, not a cheat.

Therefore I retract my apology and stand by my original comments.

When you play multiplayer, before doing something, ask yourself, could this be done in real life? If not...THEN STOP IT! :stare:

This is the second time around the same old maple tree, i should say the bilge pump lol

Someone correct me if im wrong.. but this 'little trick' is rather an old hat on 1.03 stock, WHICH WAS SUCCESSFULLY OWNED BY LWAMI LONG AGO. AFAIK, addressing this issue of using slmms as decoys is one of many reasons WHY LWAMI was released.

So with that being said, whats the problem? The guy who is 'cheating' is choosing his own battles and those who dive against him in stock are falling victim to it. From what I've read so far this only occurs on 1.03 stock.

Dive against him in LWAMI and see if his trumpet doesn't toot a different tune

I agree 100%...

Excuse me, but not everyone is versed on real world naval warfare tactics.
I have no knowledge about complicated tma theories, evasive patterns etc.... and short of clicking every sector on the kilo broadband or narrowband sonar which is a real cheat, what I do to escape a torpedo shoudn't be considered as a cheat.
What happens if I launch a passive + active decoy at the same time ?
Do I become a cheater because in real life a captain doesn't do this ? etc....
Lets cut some slack here.
For simplicity we should have a list of agreed actions which are considered cheats.
Same rule for all, as to whether non orthodox tactics count as cheat (without being a real in game cheat) well that's up for debate.

Then I apologise once again.


...I'm beginning to feel like the UN. :nope:

No one has the right answer because we as a community still don't agree as to what is or isn't considered a cheat.
The exception being of course the really nasty bugs in the game which give you a "show truth" kind of quality such as the narrowband or broadband click bug.
In the end the "solution" will be arbitrary in nature but the real issue here is that we need comon rules as to what is considered acceptable and what is considered cheat.
Otherwise its just complete and utter caos where everyone is crying foul game when its not, players being considered cheaters when they are not etc....
Of course the fact that the different virtual navies have different rules doesn't help the situation.

I understand that. But, the one before was a known cheat.

So I retract my apology. :lol:

Deleted.

OK,

Honestly I haven't been following this thread but that's not required to see where this is going(in circles), and where it is not going(proof of evidence)

I've said this once before re: kaptian vs worker and I will say this again, hopefully for the last time.

UNTIL THERE IS CONCRETE EVIDENCE, these accusations carry no weight and should be disregarded.

For the 2nd time around, the community is blatentaly assaulting an innocent person w/o proof. Due to uncertainty and lack of proof, people like Kurushio can't decide where to stand on the issue. If that isn't a sign of lack of evidence then I don't know what is.

Technically it all makes sense: SLMMs are metallic objects, they emit a passive signature and with timing, maneuvers and deployment could very well serve as a decoy.

As goldorak stated some aren't well versed tactically than others.. If someone out-foxed you then it should be respected and learned from, and not criticized.

Instead, apparently without an effort to successfully reproduce the matter on hand, once again workers' integrity is challenged, his/her name is tarnished, his/her credibility is to near complete ****, and without proof.. all of this for no reason whatsoever.

This just isn't about sub sims and whatnot, it's also about the people thay play them.

Bottom line:

Accusers: put your money where your mouth is and provide evidence.

If you can't do that, then drop this issue, close this thread, move on with your lives and leave this man/woman alone.