There seem to be 2 distinct camps on this issue. I'm in the no-3d crew camp myself -- I spend my time in the map, tdc, scope etc not wandering around the sub, and I change stations with hotkeys. The only time I see the crew is when I'm topside. IMO the 3d crew and sub interior is just fluff trying to cover up SH3's many inadequacies.

My vote is for core gameplay first, eye candy later. No 3d crew is going to be immersive for me when the game's full of bugs and the AI is retarded.

If they leave out the 3d crew, I wont buy the game. Simple as that. For me, one of the things that set SH3 apart from other "lesser" games was the realism...and the crew went a long way to making it as realistic as possible. Who wants a ghost sub???!! :damn:

I suspect most people who don't want a 3d crew have old/poor rigs. Sorry, but it's up to you to keep up with the times...

Or be trodden under, eh? Most buyers aren't screaming along on Alienware. Most people use their computer for things other than video games, too. It's up to game sellers to figure out where most of their buyers are so they can sell as many copies of the game as possible. They won't jack up the graphics to the absolute max even if they can, because that's probably not what will sell.

Yes.

Nobody said that you need an Alienware PC... It´s just that you simply need to update a PC or parts of it from time to time, otherwise you either won´t be able to play a new game at all, only at low details or with low FPS.

Ok, let me back up a second. Yes, upgrades are essential; I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. And perhaps I should have stated that I agree that the responsibility for making those upgrades has to belong to the individual.

Is it not the responsibility of game publishers to sell to their market, though?

Think you missed the pulse of the crowd here with this one. Don't think too many of us would ever willingly give up our 3D crew.

I am also sure that almost all of us would consider a small spray can of "Diesel fuel scent" added with the game to be a major bonus for immersion!:yep: :up: :rock:

It is, and most do. That´s what in-game graphics settings are for. If you can´t change basic things like screen and texture resolution, FX details and sound quality then the devs haven´t done a good job.

Roger that.

2.
SHIII really misses this "feature", is one of the only games I know that you can't set up graphics... :nope:

Performance isn't an issue at all for me. Having some experience in programming and 3d modelling and knowing how much time was spent on the 3d crew and sub interior, in a game that has bloody terrible quality control and MANY unfixed bugs even after 4 patches, is what makes me want to get rid of it.

What do you want to simulate, a 3d tin can with polygonal characters, or a submarine whose performance and systems are realistic, in an interactive world done well enough to suspend disbelief? SH3 showed us that Ubi can't deliver both.

That is a bit harsh IMO. If you believe that then you believe that a sequel cannot surpass it's predecessor. Surely we all believe that games can and usually do get better. Was SH3 not an improvement over SH2? I am sure that SH3 is not the "It can't get any better" mark.

I don't think it's harsh at all. It's not impossible that SH4 will be feature rich and bug free, I just don't think there's any evidence for believing so. How many other games have 4 patches that don't fix anything? A game's budget is finite and when you allocate resources in one area you have to take away from somewhere else. More resources spent on eye candy means less available for the core simulation and quality control, and Ubi has already shown a massive failure to address the latter.

As for SH3 being better . . . how many people on these forums say that AoTD or Silent Service was actually a better simulation? Great graphics visuals impress at first but lose their appeal quickly when the gameplay has shortcomings.

Oh I agree completely with that post.

However, what I said was harsh and did not agree with was when you said that, since SH3 was not able to deliver realistic systems and a 3D environment, SH4 will not be able to. It was that comment alone I disagreed with, you never said anything about bugs in the portion of the post I quoted ;)

I will state catigorically, I expect SH4 to be delayed, and full of bugs when it does arrive. I also expect that the modders will have to put it right again. I am just having faith that some things the modders cannot do due to engine limits will be achieveable. I am also keeping in mind that "Ubi" is not the same set of guys that make every game.. there will be fresh blood on the SH4 team, I am just not saying any definite "If they couldn't do it in SH3 they won't be able to in SH4" as you have done, to me that seems absurd.

I don't exactly have an Alienware PC, far from it. Yet I managed to run SH3 with just a few minor probs such as slowdown in ports...but for all the rest, fine.

Not only do I want 3d crew, I want the ability to interact with them. If Fritz has been good, I would like to give him a pat on the back...if he's been bad, I would like the ability to spank him. Is that asking too much??!!! :stare:

Sorry, mate, the fish aren't biting. Scroll up and read Gizzmoe's comments and my response....

It was just an attempt at humour. You really think I want a crew I can spank when they don't follow orders?
Now...a female crew...hmmm....actually...could have a hand you control like in Black & White...:lol:

Did you ever stop to think that there are alternate explanations for that sentiment, such as :

- Don't want the clutter of extra visuals...
- Would rather the developer concentrate on the sim engine, physics, gameplay, AI, and other elements of the game that concentrate on tactical realism instead of creating a role-playing game...
- also have respectable rigs that run SHIII-style graphics just fine, thank you...

TG

Tillmy, if that's the case....why stop there? Make it like Dangerous Waters where you only see the instruments of the station you are in.

What you're suggesting is a different game. What makes SH3 so special is the making you believe you are there factor. Immersion...you know, all that? The game engine is done, yes? So why can't they spend time on making the 3d crew AND physics, gameplay etc.

I want to see the crews beards get longer and their clothes and hair more shabby the longer you stay at sea...and I'm not joking this time. :up:

The crew is nice to see, but if it comes to a trade off between graphics and real simulation, I'll take reality every time. I would sooner have fine control of my boat, with the ability to individually control engines and motors, ballast and trim tanks, venting air inboard or outboard, plus better damage effects, like sea water in the batteries producing chlorine gas, than an exec with a growing beard.

Also, you need to mix shale oil with diesel to get the right smell, keep a small cup of diesel and shale in your bread bin to give your bread that lovely rainbow colour too.

Not really. I like to be able to cruise around compartments, and actually don't mind seeing the crewmen at their stations. What I don't want is to have the developers waste time on creating "The Sims - U-Boat Edition" when they should be concentrating on tactical realism. I don't give a squat about interacting with an unshaven crewmember when - for example, and I'm not citing any particular bugs that I'm aware of in SHIII - my weapons are buggy, the AI is incompetent, the TDC isn't modeled correctly, etc...

It's nice to live in a fantasy world in which the developers aren't constrained by development deadlines, publishers' deadlines, and financial restrictions and business models, isn't it!

TG