Re: German school capitulates to ethnic violance
 

That's not a valid point. Do you want to negate all of that times' contributions towards the continent's development? Were other countries more liberal at that time? No, they were so not.

Pole

Re: German school capitulates to ethnic violance
 

It was Muhammad, not me, telling people that any infidels should be overcome by whatver force and tool needed - they shall be converted, or be killed. The status of "dhimmi" is not really a protective arrangement for the "people of the book", butorganized discirmination, for Islam demands that Jews and christians must be made feel inferior and ashamed for not wanting to convert to Islam. and it was muhammad and muslims coming after him forming a canon of scriptures that explains in most explcits pitctures how diabloc infidels should be brought from life to death in the most cruel ways and tortures, like drowning them in boiling waters, strangulate them with burning iron chains, letting them feel the pain as intense as possible as a justified penalty send by Allah for their lacking faith into him. O Goa'uld he was, I would say :lol:

Re: German school capitulates to ethnic violance
 

That does not mean that Islam was any better. It was - and is - by far the most aggressivly pushing religious faction of all time.

But I have explained all this in detail time and again. You people simply do not look for it.

Not that I have already posted these links time and again... :lol:



http://people.freenet.de/Skybird/His...uranHadith.doc

ttp://people.freenet.de/Skybird/DialogueWithIslam.rtf

http://people.freenet.de/Skybird/BOI.doc

http://people.freenet.de/Skybird/His..._1_Forword.doc

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...ghlight=turkey

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...light=dialogue



All stuff from these threads:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...light=dialogue

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...light=dialogue

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...ghlight=turkey

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...650&highlight=

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=history+islam

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...650&highlight=

Skybird strikes back ;)

Re: German school capitulates to ethnic violance
 

Ya know some of those leaders in the Middle East do seem to be over the top, egocentric, megalomaniacs… :hmm:

bible and Qu'Ran do not compare. IMO the whole Qu'ran is of the quality and style and level like the Old testament. Also, you cannot separate Sharia and Qu'ran, like you try to do. Sharia is meant as a tool to make the believer sticking to the belief that the Qu'Ran is the only valid source of truth and devine enlightenment, by putting sanctions on not believing so. Sharia is the form, Qu'ran is the essence, the content of the form. Sharia and Qu'ran work hand in hand, cannot be seen as two separate qualties. They are like two sides of one and the same coin. In contrast I would reject a statement saying that Jesus' sermon on the mountain, or like he is described in the four gospels, reflects the old testament. Both parts of the bible speak of two very different ideas of an idol, the one a punishing, egocentirc, revenging vulcan-God whose good will miust be bought by obeying him and doing sacrifices, the other a metaphor for a raise of inner mental evolution, or a higher state of mind, if you want. That's why I do not get christian fundamentalists and the message of Jesus together. I would even say: if you want to be a christian in the understanding of following Jesus - you even must reject the old testament. Christian traditon came up with something that leads beyond that old testament. But Islam did not come up with something that leads beyond it's version of an old testment, the Qu'ran. It was so rigid from the beginning on, when Muhammad was trying to justify his demands by religious means to easily prohibit any opposition to them, that Islam was not able to form a higher developed view that could take over from this Muhammadian centre of views. It started to release rules prohibiting to do so very eraly, and this prohibitions still work today. There were attempts by clerics in the early centuries to implement alternative interpretations and schools and another form of theology than the circular-thinking orthodoxy - they got wiped out more effectively than the church had been able to supress opposition to it'S power monopole in europe. What survived these early attempts in Islam, let's call it the attempt to form an Islamic mystic, had then been battled down and often executed by Sahaladin ("defender of faith", which means he killed all heretic views on Islam, and whose perception in the West also is not in correspondence with the harsh and brutal historical reality of his person), and later during the mongolian attack on Persia and the destruction of Bagdhad, were major parts of the leading representatives of Islam of that time got killed, and almost all clerics represrnting the mystical side that they tried to establish. One could truly say that Islam has no mystic (the Sufis are not that mystic). A religion that has not mystic heart and centre, is a hollow body only. It'S rite, no experience. It is cult, no culture. It is satisfied to simply believe, it does not seek knowledge and insight. and all this primitivity it declares to be a virtue, of course. but it remaisn to be the mental horizon of people living in a hostile environment, 1400 years ago.

Sorry guys, but at some point of time even me with my reputation of being an excessive writer find it tiresome to repeat what I had written again and again in the past. I wanted to point at the wishful thinking concerning ongoing and unlimited immigration, and the crashdown of integration in reality, when linking to that school event. Now I am again engaged in a discussion on Islam, like I had dozens, it seems, before. I have written several essays on Islam and how I see it and why I see it the way I do. This explains my unforgiving rjection and lacking tolerance for it. If you really want to know about me, get some of those essay I lionked to on page one, especially "The dialogue that never was", and "Critical History of Islam - Chapter 2: Qu'ran and Hadith."

I for myself leave this thread now. If you want to challenge me - we have a number of nice chess matches going on, a wonderful way to have a duel with someone. ;)

Skybird chillout have some fun for a change :up:

Thanks for answering my question Sky. :shifty:

You already have answered it yourself.: "Reason I am asking is in Switzerland there were large numbers of Kosovar refugees (Muslims) during and after the wars and upheavals of the 1990s..and there was a lot of tension as a result."

And frankly speaking, "Christian" nations like Bulgarians, Romanians and Serbs are not well regarded either...even if it is not as poorly as the "Muslims". I also doubt as far as Bosnians and Albanians are concerned anyone could distinguish them from their Christian neighbours. Also, students and officials from some ex-Sovet Muslims Republics like Kazakstan and Kyrgyzstan are very well regarded...many here don't even realise they are Muslims.

Another point, on another forum, a Dutch fellow said he didn't think Greece belongs in the EU. Never was able to understand why he thought that either...other than some stupid insults.

In Islam, each Muslim counts. The nice, the bad, it doesn't matter what kind of fellow a Muslim is, as long as he is a Muslim first and foremost. When the time comes and the Imman calls, all that matters is if he will attend or not.

When the Catholic Pope remembers Catholics shouldn't wear condoms, nobody follows.

When an Imman demands Muslims to protest against cartoons, all hell breaks loose, things burn, people die, and in Europe they demand their own judiciary system for their neighborhood.

Islam is currently asleep because it cannot survive one minute overt, but the alarm clock is set, and the time is ticking. When it awakens, it will catch Europe with their pants down, for Europe will be the one sleeping this time, and if it is too late by then, Europe will be put to sleep eternally, if you know what I mean.

Who is this "islam"? Many "muslims" I know won't answer the imam's call...so won't be considered muslims, by Europe and this "Islam"? Don't forget, the imam is not the same in Islam as the clergy in Catholicism, for both good and bad.

This "Islam" is the dorment Lion, or Camel.

The moderate happy Islam is part of this Islam.

The angry hatefull Islam is part of this Islam.

The angry protesters who answered the call in Syria and flamed embassies are part of this Islam.

The peacefull protesters who answered the call and marched with signs against free speech, not against molotovs or burning embassies, are part of this Islam.

What they consider themselves or are considered by others is their problem. The point is, a Muslim in Europe who has nothing but Islam, whose children go to a public sectarian Muslim school, lives surrounded by Muslims in a poor segregated immigrant neighborhood and may not even have any work to do (in any sense of that word) living off aid programs surviving day by day. Will he answer the call? What's important for him? What does he have to loose? His life?

There's 3 rivers flowing: 1. Fascist; Extremist; Terrorist Muslims, 2. Peacefull Muslims who still put Islam above values like freedom - these two are parallel rivers that converge on the awakening of Islam. 3. Modern Muslims, this river starts at the same source but quicky changes direction heading away from the other two.

Immans have greater influence over the first two, if any on the third, the conditions of many Muslims [we don't know] in Europe favours the sprouting of the first two rivers, the question is, how large a mass of maneuver are they?

I fail to see any other Islam throughout history than the fighting Islam. This is the only islam I am able to find in the qu'ran and Hadith, the history, and the biography and the living example of Muhammad (whose life was about war, violant enforcement of his will, predatory raids, surpressing opposition by murder and imprisonment, massmurder, slavery, rape, militiary conquest, braking resitance of foreign people's cultures and forcing them to submit. How this kind of guy could be regarded as a spiritual leader and a man of peace remains mystery to me). Islam only - always - came to a standstill were superior military power or lacking economcial ressources brought it to a halt. That is no peace, but a ceasefire. It presses on when it has regained sufficent strength. For it is demanded to press on, a Msulim not doing so is violating Islam, and thus deserves punishement - you think fundamentalists like bin Laden are queer? I tell you they are more in correspondence with the real, the fighting Islam than most of those trying to lull the West by talking about coexistence. Islam'S mission is to spread Islam, until it is in rule everyhwhere. No matter if militarily or like today: demographically. that is part of it's mission. The ammount of aggressiveness and expansive drive of this ideology itself is almost ridiculous. Nevertheless it is a realistic threat.

There is no moderate or "real" Islam separate from the fundamentalist Islam, that discrimination is a Western fantasy only. Muhammad himself has preached that the infidels must be overcome and forced to surrender to Islam, or being killed. The people of the book (that is no compliment, guys, it is a distgusted disqualification, if you just look deep enough into it!) at least must be ruled and dominated and must be enforced to feel humiliated and inferior as a penalty for rejecting Allah - which is the real meaning of the adh-al-dhimmi tradition. Noone would think of the Jews in the paradise ghetto in Warsaw to have been "privileged", and that the SS only brought them there to better protect them. They too were dhimmis of the Nazis, kind of.

There is no moderate or tolerant Islam, there is only the fighting Islam. Peace not before Islam has won it all and wiped out everything that is not Islam. See that aggressive way: yes, Islam means peace. Peace under the ruling of the sword of the prohet. This is it'S message since the 6th century, and nowhere, in no part of it's scriptures that has changed. which is only logical becasue the quran as the devine relevation is regarded as the "end of history". If Allah had revealed himself, there cannot come anything behind him. there is no more insight to be found after and beyond the Quran. A Muslim wanting to be Muslim but not taking the quran word by word is a heretic. Many Western Muslims are not aware of that. that'S why some of them still try to stick to Islam - although they sometimes already have left and abandoned it by the superior thinking and higher developed code of values and ethics their minds have found access to. It is too primitive for them anymore, so they want to distort it and making it sound harmless, that way avoiding to officially get out of Islam. they call themselves Muslims by habit only, but they are no more by true understanding of the term.

then there are Muslims behaving like these kind of people some of you guys label as "moderate muslims", they are not moderate muslims, they are followers of a cult only that is not Islam at all. they pick something from it, but not the whole, unaware that picking some parts of it is not possible in Islam. You cannot choose what you like, and reject the rest. They are not moderate Muslims, but unknowing muslims (which nevertheless is good for us and good for them). A moderate muslim, according to Quran, Hadith, Muhammad, is a contradiction like a democratic fashist or a humanistic Stalinist or an anti-racist KKK-member. It is impossible to define a moderate Muslim, if Islam is understood on the basis of Quran, Hadith and Muhammad - and is not arbitrarily defined to one's own opportunistic likings, ignoring historical information that is known; and ignoring the declared self-understanding of Islam as expressed in - again: Quran, Hadith, Muhammad. These are the basis to define Islam, the only basis, not one Western ambition to balance polarized arguments and make them compatible with our tradition to find compromises. And Islamic history in in correspondence with this fundamentalistic understanding of Islam. That should make people think, but for some reason it doesn't.

Like it or not, guys, but that is simply how it is. Some things you simply cannot talk nicier than they are. You wouldn't suggest the Nazis deserve a peace nobel price, because in the word Nationalsozialismus there is the word "sozial" included. You wouldn'T suggest Stalinism is a value worth to be followed because it has won the war. You shouldn't make comparable mistakes with regard to Islam. Most Muslims, the overwhelming majority, that try to tell you how harmless Islam is - simply do not know enough about the ideology they happen to follow.

Again I want to remind you that since 1400 years members of foreign cultures and religions, until today!, are systemtically decimated in all territories of Muslim sphere of influence, and all Muslim nations - there never has been a period of standstill in the trend. Soemtimes the extinguishing of foreign culture in their territories went faster, sometime s more slowly, but never it had stopped, until today. christians and Jews are masisvely hindered in ALL Muslims countries to practice their faiths, not to mention to missionize, (like Muslims reserve the right to do in our homes - they prohibit us what they excessively do themselves). This is ethnic cleansing as much as it can be. A tolerant, peaceful coexistence, or integration into foreign systems, looks different, I would think.

Give it a small finger, and it rips off your arm, and then goes for the rest of your body, to silence your painful cries so that there is peace again. That is the simple reason why I am so unforgiving in my stand against Islam. Some things you better do not try to arrange yourself with. Sometimes you simply need to make an uncompromised stand against something, ruling out foul compromises. But Europe does not have the will to defend itself with such fighting spirit anymore. Like Eastern Rome tried to buy peace from Attila - only making him storng that way, while getting weak itself. The situation compares.

Dont these politicians learn ?

A muslim on the news read a passage from the Qu'ran it said.

Any man who depicts me Kill him

Wow! You must be special! :hmm:

Not me i was watching the london protest's on the news, and that is what a guy said on a mega phone word for word.

It even says other things like that in the qu'ran.

Maybe you can call me Skybird Junior after this but...

I must second every single thing that Skybird is talking about. The situation here in Belgium is the same if not worse. Islam will be our downfall if we do not react. I don't want to swap it for any other religion, as I am not a religious person myself, but Islam is fundamentalistic by nature and if I have something to say about it, I repeat what I have read on Steed's banner, I WILL NOT SUBMIT.

The problem is only that a lot of these people were born here and have the Belgian nationality. Even if they do not wish to learn the language, or submit to Western culture who has fed them and tolerates their behaviour on the penalty of being called racist, we can not kick them out.

Let me tell you this, the Turkish, the Jewish and the Chinese community here in Antwerp are not troublemakers. We coexist (not always peacefully) but at least the attitude problem I see with young Marrocans is not there.

In the seventies, the Belgian government, (that we voted for) invited 'Guest Workers' mainly form Marrocco to our country, because the employment opportunities were that good that Belgians at that time did not want/have to do so called filthy or lesser jobs, like garbage removal and coalmining to phrase a few examples.

Like Skybird sais, they talk their arab language or speak a sort of paegan Flemish/French especially because they do not WISH to be integrated. I am talking people who were born here, and went to Belgian schools. They esteem themselves to be 'special' and therefore, they develop a kind of 'gangsta' attitude, and the language that fits it.
We are talking about kids from the age of 14 till 26 years old, who kinda 'rule' the streets, and not only the neighbourhood they live in, who bully people on busses and trams.
Let there be no mistake :NOBODY forced them to live in those neighbourhoods or ghettos, but they did and still willingly go there to form their packs.
When they resort to violence, they will never do so alone. Alone they seem just as integrated as anybody else (the wolf's fur is still visible under the sheeps clothing) but once they are numerically superior, they (try) to force their will upon people.

And the politicians you say ??? hahaha, what a joke !

They live in neighbourhoods where Islam is a kind of fantasy coming from the 'Sherazade and the 1000 and 1 nights tale'. They debate about what a meal tastes, without even taking a spoonful.

Democracy ? I don't think so, pseudo-democracy at best, and then some.

The problem is this: As long as people vote for the tolerant ostrich politician, nothing will change. While the elections are underway we listen to politicians and their superb programmes only to be dissapointed when the real programme is there after they are sure to wine and dine on the taxpayers money, up until the new elections of course!

Tolerance in Belgium has been a misnomer for 'we do what we please or we call you a racist' kind of policy.

And last but not least: I don't think we Europeans should take lessons in tolerance from countries where the cost of an apprenticeship is 7 times the price for foreigners who really wish to emigrate ! That is for example Australia, I country I have visited as a tourist and wish to emigrate to. I have skills and I have a western culture, but It doesn't make it easier to stay 'Downunder'.

Our scolarship fees, be it for Belgians, Australians, Morrocans, Jews, and any other citizen of any nation in the world is equal. And what's more: if you decide to be taught an occupation that is critical to our country you will get the scolarship for free. Do you wish to learn a profession, and leave Belgium afterwards, there's nobody stopping you!