NS, I agree there will always be a bad feeling towards X-1 here and X-1 deserves it for their initial actions. But, they released only approved mods with their new ones and Seawolves Mediterranean is all new stuff. And, now people are saying they don't have the right to make their own stuff by using the same methods of modding and that is rediculous.

There are no new ships in SH3. All are modified versions of UBI owned files. Any completely new file can be considered original but any modified file based on an original still belongs to UBI.

Greg Law (Seacondor) has sent Serg some CFS3 ships which are being converted for use in SH3. Greg has stated X-1 can add these if they want so here we have a delema. They belong to Greg Law of Ground Crew Designs and he is giving Serg the right to convert them to SH3 but X-1 can use them and does that mean Serg can say Greg's ships cannot be used because he modded them? You tell me. It is the fine line.
They will be offered for free but X-1 can use the same ships in their mod. (They won't be converted in time so it is really not an issue but still interesting)

I don't care if people do not want to buy Seawolves. I wouldn't myself as I like modding, that is the fun to me. It just annoys me when they act like the only people legally allowed to make mods are doing something wrong even when there is no evidence to suggest it!
Guilty without proof nor is any required to make baseless statements.
If what X-1 did was wrong then, why do those that accuse them falsely act like that is OK. Sounds like the same horse in a different color..

Wulfmann

Is it being formulated like this now? I thought I was helping Greg to bring his models to SH3 community or basically doing him a favor.

There should not be any issue here. If X-1 says they have all the necessary skills and figured out all the hex-editing tricks, they should be able to easily make the conversion of Greg's models and make it in time for their release as it seems they have the man power and do the job within hours as you said above.

Serg, the miscommunication is my fault.
Because X-1 was modding new ships in the manner you were doing (but doing many of them) I thought you were doing them for X-1.
Greg was merely letting you add (convert) his stuff to SH3 simply to let the types of ships expand without any motive even though he is so busy he can not play SH3.
Because I thought you were making X-1 ships I suggested to X-1 they should buy them from Greg and Greg told me X-1 could use them for free.
I now realize you are not involved with making new models for X-1 and they have pretty much wrapped up their ships and are testing other areas.
My fault, sorry for any mix up but purely my doing.
Wulfmann

Really to be honest people who steal unique work are scum ,period.

And it doesnt matter the slightest bit what they think about their act in that regard.

Further,the modding community dont need the permission from anybody to to mod the files they got on their hd,especially not if they dont intend to sell their modification of the source files..
IF a software company would intend to prevent modding they should seal their code so that it is factual unaccessable.

Otherwise its mine,on my HD i can do whatever i want with it as long it is on my machine and i just share the mod info with buddys.

You know we dont need to pack modfiles like configs etc, a textfile how to do it would be fully sufficent.
Try to stop me from telling someone how to do it.

Further you know Ubisoft Is an enemy of the modding community,because in their limited horizon they see only assumed potential losses.

Quite ironic in a situation where Modders spent their valuable time to remove partially bugs, which never should have been in the final product in the first place?
Imagine Mercedes would sell you after 1 year the brake fix kit...,i know in regard to software there is no life at stake,yet the example already shows the Unprofessional attitude that found a prosperous ground in the IT industrie.
And then people like you Wolve come arround and defend some dubious figures,who basically should prove to us, that they didnt steal the knowhow to some modds.
But as this is isnt provable i would ignore those config changes,they are lost, as a modder you should be aware that you do it for nada..,dont expect anything.
Internal ,we of course know that they are thieves, and that that alone excludes them from civilized mankind.
And I bet they are aware of that fact and just have postponed selfexaminations in the mirror till that day they face death ,eventually, but only maybe.
Usualy character flaws like that are a steady company through the whole life.

Anyways if it comes to custom artwork i would sue them for every single skin/mesh they stole,if they would try to make money of it.
I slowley think the open source community might take longer to make their sim versions of platforms but in the end we dont need to reley on products made by people who only got $ signs in their socialy retarded minds.
I would like to point out though, that not all companys act like that, there are exeptions like Relic© for example.
Yet its a fact that a few foul apples can spoil the whole recept.

All who might feel hit by what i said i can offer hope,there are already people working on stuff like MS`s palladium approach, and intentions by american telecom companys to transfor the web kill off the civil internet splitting it up in brass silver and premium networks,and let the user pay for each and everything he is doing with his super Duper paladium machine on which not even the code for the progs will be stored , because the programs will be lend and downloaded on demand via super HD pipes.
Nice eh..? ITs the uber control freaks vs the sane world,you all will be happy.

The philosophical implications one can derive from the already visible approaches, which indicate the corrosponding mindsets if you analyze what they mean,point from my pov towards a state where we the users, should carefully watch IT developments and in Doubt act massivley against such intentions.

And sabotageing X1 is the least we can do.

Just keep in mind that they are only the visible peeks of even bigger attempts to ripp us off,and in the end change the liberal free face of the internet.

What you and a few (I am sure well meaning) short sighted people refuse to consider is Seawolves will reach 10 to 100 times as many people as our little community effort, no matter how much we enjoy it.
What they do actually helps us more than we help ourselves.
By expanding the user base they can help the barely minimum sales fiqures to make UBI want to continue doing sub sims.
It is in our interest that they succeed but don't let me open that little narrow way of thinking we are the center of the universe and the man is out to live off our wonderous efforts.
We are doing some nice editing of a few files. We are not the reason for SH3's success. We do what we enjoy and that is enough for me.
Perhaps you have forgotten how M$ does exactly what you refer to when they sell for hundreds of dollars unfinished programs, nearly every product they make is like that.

Wulfmann

I'm all for an add on to SH3, I'm sure many of you remember SH2 and there were a bunch of guys who set about an add on for that.
It was called "Pacific Aces," I was involved on that team though I played a minor part, but the end result was we got an add on to SH2, but the bottom line was it was done for FREE.
Why can't X-1 do the same?

They are a company and want/need to make money.

Why doesn't UBI do it for free???

Companies have employees and like to feed their children and I am guessing you do not refuse your paycheck from your job.

X-1 is making an add on and the only people that will buy it are the ones that want to. How is that different than any other game company

Wulfmann

I didn't realise it was a company, I thought it was a bunch of scallys trying to make a fast buck. sorry I misunderstood.

Who cares if they can reach a larger user base. What if the authors of the mods simply don't want to reach a larger user base, at least not when someone is getting profits off their work? If your explanation is logical then I guess every person selling pirated games out there is helping the industry, too. Those guys in China certainly have a huge user base.

No one cares if the authors of those unfinished programs let M$ use their work. However, when M$ doesn't have the permission, even the best lawyers in the world won't save their asses. Remember MS-DOS 6.0 and the little disk compression scam?

Messenger, I am not sure if you understand one basic truth here, UBI is the author or owner of the authored work and holds the rights to them. They have given X-1 permission to modify the files of SH3 for an expansion package. X-1 is not using other people's mods. They are making their own in the same manner others do.
I have a few dozen of their ships never seen anywhere else that I know they made themselves..
They have legal permission for this and no one else does.
Name one thing they have in this Mediterranean package that belongs to someone else.
Please.
I say you do not know what you are talking about and are making false and misleading claims that are baseless.
Proof me wrong!

Wulfmann

Ubisoft has given them the permission to MOD the game like what Beery and Jones did. Saying Ubisoft authorized X1 Soft to make a 3rd party commercial expansion carries about as much weight as nothing since it is completely irrelevant to this issue. That simply means Ubisoft tolerates commercial mods. Using someone's work without permission for profit though, is stealing not modding. Even if you did the majority of the work, as long as someone's material has been used, you need to obtain permission and provide credits. As for my proof, see this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40628

If that's not enough, try google.

I do have to admit though, the version analyzed in the thread is obviously not the latest one in the market. Thus we might never know what exactly is still there(or not there).

Seawolves came out about 5 months ago, people analysed it and so far they couldn´t come up with anything that showed that X1 has broken any laws.

arguing aside. How is this small exp?? Is it pretty much everything the modders have done??

It´s total crap compared to what you can get for free. Seawolves is ok for certain groups of people, but it´s over-priced.

Messenger, you seem to ignore any relevant fact that does not support you rant.
UBI has authorized, not tolerated, not ignored, they have authorized X-1 to make the expansion and X-1 sends their stuff to UBI for approval.
No one but X-1 has this authorization and your claim of stealing somebody’s work was not followed by a single example.
As G said, nothing was done unlawfully.
I do agree G, I liked the free mods better than what was in X-1's first package.
This second package is huge by comparison and has many, many new things of which no one should buy that does not like X-1 to which they will not care!
This one will be a good thing for non downloaders and for those that want more ships, Black Sea and Salamis campaigns but has so much activity in the Med it is rush hour. While that makes for better gaming, it does not simulate actual events. Although, many things are based on real events and things like Juno and Berlin are great. Small convoys in the Med are added much more like the many Tobruk ones that were real and I have seen more German air attacks on allied ships in a few career missions than I have seen in 8 months of SH3 play (which would be none).
Once I dove quickly thinking the DD had spotted me because it was blasting away. But, there were no splashes and I noticed the flashes were going upward. By the time I got there one DD was sunk, the other was making a fast track away and there was only a damaged cargo left for me to finish off. Damn greedy Luftwaffe getting all the credit!
I have a Seawolves beta version and my personal heavily modded version that I also add those things from Seawolves I like.
There is a whole lot I like but I want it my way.
Once a modder always a modder.

Wulfmann

uh.. seawolves sounds pretty sweeet... Besides the heavy traffic in med, what else is bs?

I want some of their ships...

Too bad I'm a cheapskate who doesn't like payware expansion packs. :-j

:yep: Remeber that addon well, very good. Also the Aces Campaign that was good also. I had bad ocean display in SH2 well not bad but wasn't good to look at - bluey darkish color, Yet my computer at the time was well above the specs required. Then someone put out a mod for ocean display and i tweaked the settings abit and got the water display to have that glass effect, crystal clear.

Man it would of been good to see a US addon for SH3. Hurry up SH4.

Wulfmann, what's so strange for me is to understand that IF UBI gave the authorisation to that Add on then why is it a banned theme on the Official UBI Forum ?? (specialy in the German Forum)
So either they don't want that ppl. know it exist and/or is authorized by UBI or it's just not realy authorized by them.

You say that you did a lot of testing for x-1 but did you REALY see this authorisation or did they just tell you they have it ?