Interesting, though I haven't tested it yet.

Can you give some more details on the damage system (your modifications of the zones.cfg file)? 'cause I like that part the most.

Also I wonder, if you set 3DRender at 1024 like I did, does it mean that you have to rearrange your crew every few hours (it's 24h per "watch" in your mod isn't it?) when cruising for several days? If so, I don't like that. :)

And another thing: is it possible to somehow differentiate fatigue factors for "cruise mode" and "combat mode" (other than setting higher fatigue for torp rooms/gun stations)?

I was very concerned about my men. Any normal captain would go crazy if he saw the same amount of red exclaimation marks as I did (!!!). You could say that I underwent a lot of undue stress (which is a good thing; that's what we want, right?). Plus, if I had not ensured good crew management, I'm sure we would have sunk... It is an absolute necessity with your hollywood mod :yep:

I did attempt to rearrange the crew after every depth charge attack. Systems were getting damaged on almost every pass (but realisically so) which often times changed my damage control priorities. People might find your current system of crew micro-management to be a drag, but it really does give the player something better to do (as opposed to being glued to the periscopes at 50m, watching the DD's come by, and ordering flank left or flank right). I have to say that even myself, after going through that harrowing test, I was fatigued when it was all over... Love that feeling :up:

I would like to see this in campaign mode, because not everything should be at full efficiency, at least not all the time. SH3 default makes it seem as though we are running on a sub with super-powered robots at the helm. A green crew, like I had in my test, would and should not be able to undergo such an attack in campaign mode, without at least losing a lot of their ability to function at full capacity. I would imagine that if you were to take such a beating in campaign mode, you'd probably want to sail your u-boat right back to port rather than continue on (to me, that sounds like a good and realistic feeling). That is much improved over the default SH3 damage and repair system, which leaves me feeling like my robots can handle anything (bad...).

Next time, I think I can do more testing if I take fewer pictures... :lol:



Some comments: I wouldn't worry too much about fixing all of the dying men... Don't make it so that DC attacks are no longer lethal; I'd rather have 5 men die than 0 men... but if you can possibly make it so that 2 men die instead of 5 men, by all means go ahead! :up:



Some people have said that this is not a real fatigue method or whatnot. They are correct in saying so, but I don't believe that your mod aims at gauging fatigue. Organization is something else...

Describing in words what it is.... The more 'organization' that your crew has, the more freedom you will have to "run" your boat. But the less organization they have, the more you have to be cautious and attentive to the needs of your men. No longer can you throw caution to the wind. This mod forces you to take measures in order to ensure the safety and survival of your men. When you finally escape from those nasty elite DD's, you WILL feel a sense of accomplishment, not to mention that you and your men will be DEAD-ASS tired!

You'll probably be able to find it on your own, but here, in en_menu.txt :

636=Watch Tower
637=Radio Room
638=Command Room
639=Diesel Engines
640=Electric Engines
641=Bow Torpedo
642=Bow Quarters
643=Stern Quarters
644=Stern Torpedo
645=Forward Deck
646=Flak Gun

You might want to alter the corresponding compartments accordingly. And so far, GOOD GOING with this mod!! :up:

I haven't tested these theories yet, but...

-Even if it is stormy, does the crew get less "fatigued" if the player decides to ride submurged, underneath of the brutal waves?

-Does speed of the u-boat affect fatigue/organization loss?

-Does a more experienced crew (either in terms of EXP or number of patrols) have an easier time of coping with this "fatigue" model?

-Is your system fully foolproof? Meaning is there any possible way for the player to "cheat" and somehow replenish his crew?... That's probably a bug that the beta testers have to catch.



ummm... :up: :up: :up:

Hi all Beta testers and others who are helping with this by giving comments suggestion etc.

I feel that it is only fair to explain this mod in detail so that other People such as Kaa etc can save time trying to balance their own versions which may in fact may suit other types of players.

To me its all a matter of who has the time etc.

I am only concentrating on a 24 hr system or as close to one as I can. After I have nailed this I will consider a longer based version or hopefully someone will follow what I have done and do their own preference.

I will highlight my changes and try and give explanation as to what effects what.

This will be a long thread but I hope you guys find it as interesting as I did playing with the figures.



Now Remember folks that I have RUB 1.44 installed and sh3 commander as well as installing Hollywood 5 as shown on first post however I am just loading the game through My standard desktop icon as SH3 commander will change the settings if I go through it at the moment.

So here goes with my view and settings on the subject of damage and fatigue.

FIRST = Crew settings (please note my latest changes after v5.00 will be shown in red so you can just change to this to get up to par where we are up to).

Open basic cfg

Remember I am only showing what I tweak and explaining as best as I can.


[DAMAGE]
OpenComp=1
PartiallyOpenComp=0.5
EnclosedComp=0.1 I have reduced this a little more to see if it improves the crew resistance to damage a bit better.

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30 Not touched
MoraleMax=0.60 Not touched
MoraleStep=0.05Not touched
FatigueMin=0 Not touched
FatigueMax=0.95 This number represents the maximum fatigue a man can recieve. I set at 95%
FatigueStep=0.1 I have kept this all the same for every crew member. It seems to all fatigue to go up and down. Thats as much as I know :hmm:
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.1 Set this all the same as well, what the hell they are all men to me.
QualEffect=1.1 I have this on low for lower ranks and worked up the higher I got in rank.
Hp=10 This number is bloody weird to me. If I set to say 1000 my resilience bar does not show so it seems to need to be fairly low.
Wounded=-0.02 Not touched
Dead=-0.05 Not touched
SunkShips=0.1 Not touched
TorpedoHit=0.05 Not touched
Experience=0 Not touched

[CREW_1] ;ABLESEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.95
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.2
Hp=11
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=20

[CREW_2] ;LEADINGSEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.93
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.3
Hp=12
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=50

[CREW_3] ;PETTYOFFICER
MoraleMin=0.40
MoraleMax=0.70
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.92
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.3
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.4
Hp=15
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=100

[CREW_4] ;CHIEFPETTYOFFICER
MoraleMin=0.40
MoraleMax=0.70
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.91
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.3
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.5
Hp=18
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=150

[CREW_5] ;CHIEFBOATSWAIN
MoraleMin=0.40
MoraleMax=0.70
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.85
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.3
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.6
Hp=20
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=200

[CREW_6] ;SUBLIEUTENANT
MoraleMin=0.50
MoraleMax=0.80
MoraleStep=0.1
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.83
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.2
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.7
Hp=22
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=300

[CREW_7] ;LIEUTENANTJR
MoraleMin=0.50
MoraleMax=0.80
MoraleStep=0.1
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.80
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.2
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.8
Hp=25
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=400

[CREW_8] ;LIEUTENANTSR
MoraleMin=0.50
MoraleMax=0.80
MoraleStep=0.1
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.80
FatigueStep=0.1
CoefMorale=0.2
CoefFatigue=0.1
QualEffect=1.9
Hp=28
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=500

This next area I left alone but I think it needs looking into one day.

NumberOfCrew1=6
Interval1_1=3.0
Interval2_1=4.1
Interval3_1=8.5

NumberOfCrew2=9
Interval1_2=4.6
Interval2_2=6
Interval3_2=12.1

NumberOfCrew3=12
Interval1_3=6.1
Interval2_3=7.8
Interval3_3=16

NumberOfCrew4=8
Interval1_4=4.1
Interval2_4=5.3
Interval3_4=11

NumberOfCrew5=10
Interval1_5=5.1
Interval2_5=6.5
Interval3_5=13.7

NumberOfCrew6=7
Interval1_6=3.7
Interval2_6=4.7
Interval3_6=9.7

NumberOfCrew7=5
Interval1_7=2.7
Interval2_7=3.5
Interval3_7=7.3

NumberOfCrew8=3
Interval1_8=1.6
Interval2_8=2.3
Interval3_8=4.65

NumberOfCrew9=4
Interval1_9=2.2
Interval2_9=2.9
Interval3_9=6.1

NumberOfCrew10=14
Interval1_10=6.5
Interval2_10=8.2
Interval3_10=14.3

NumberOfCrew11=2
Interval1_11=1.1
Interval2_11=1.7
Interval3_11=4.1

NumberOfCrew12=1
Interval1_12=0.5
Interval2_12=0.7
Interval3_12=1.1

What does it all mean ????????????????

The following area shows what i have done regarding this time recovery though it may make no difference so your guess is as good as mine.

I changed every time recovery to 1. Why? god knows


NbComp=9
Comp0=0; Tower Watch
Nb0=5
Subs00=AttackPeriscope
AttackPeriscope=0; E_AttackPeriscope
TimeRecovery00=1
Subs01=ObservationPeriscope
ObservationPeriscope=1; E_ObservationPeriscope
TimeRecovery01=1
Subs02=RadioAntenna
RadioAntenna=2; E_RadioAntenna
TimeRecovery02=1
Subs03=RadarAntenna
RadarAntenna=3; E_RadarAntenna
TimeRecovery03=1
Subs04=RadarWarningReceiver
RadarWarningReceiver=40;E_RadarWarningReceiver

The next setion is a very improtant part of this mod and I will explain as I go.


[FATIGUE_COEF]
;comp 0 Tower
RegularFactor00=0.01 New setting Regular factor seems to represent the instant penalty for going into a compartment.
SpecificFactor00=0.003 Represents the drain, this is more than the others because there on watch in my eyes.
BadWeather0=0.0003 I have set these in no specific order to realism but I did want the watch to be affected.
;comp1 Sonar/Radio
RegularFactor10=0.1
RegularFactor11=0.1
SpecificFactor10=0.004 Has equal drain above water than below
SpecificFactor11=0.004
BadWeather1=0.0002
;comp2 command room
RegularFactor20=0.2 A higher penalty when first going into this room.
RegularFactor21=0.2
SpecificFactor20=0.004
SpecificFactor21=0.003
BadWeather2=0.0003
;comp3 diesel
RegularFactor30=0.01 New penalty
RegularFactor31=0.01 New penalty
SpecificFactor30=0.004 Notice that drain should only occur on surface and not below.
SpecificFactor31=0.0
BadWeather3=0.00001
;comp4 elect
RegularFactor40=0.01 New penalty
RegularFactor41=0.01 New penalty
SpecificFactor40=0.0
SpecificFactor41=0.004
BadWeather4=0.00000001 I just dont think weather should effect the electric as much as others.
;comp5 bow torp
RegularFactor50=0.1 Notice these setting are set for combat situations only and not for storing men whilst cruising.
RegularFactor51=0.1
SpecificFactor50=0.01
SpecificFactor51=0.01
BadWeather5=0.2
;comp6 bow rest
RegularFactor60=-0.01 The number represents the cup of coffee I am always on about. Also note this line has been introduced to the script.
RegularFactor61=-0.01
SpecificFactor60=-0.005
SpecificFactor61=-0.008
;comp7 stern rest
RegularFactor70=0.30 Notice the higher penalty in this area but then you will notice the faster recharge rate below.
RegularFactor71=0.30
SpecificFactor70=-0.015 Faster rate of recovery than other rest area
SpecificFactor71=-0.048
;comp8 stern torp
RegularFactor80=0.01 Again I set this area for battles
RegularFactor81=0.01
SpecificFactor80=0.01
SpecificFactor81=0.01
BadWeather8=0.2
;comp9 deck cast
RegularFactor90=0.10
SpecificFactor90=0.03
BadWeather9=0.5 Notice that I have a high weather penalty on this and the Flack gun area.
;comp10 flak
RegularFactor100=0.25
SpecificFactor100=0.03
BadWeather10=0.5
;comp 11 Repair station
RegularFactor110=0.99 This is how I manage repairs. All men recieve a massive org penalty to represent disorganisation and pannic.
RegularFactor111=0.99
SpecificFactor110=0.99
SpecificFactor111=0.99
BadWeather11=0 Sod weather here cos they are on max energey loss anyway.

I hope you followed most of that,

I will do damage explanation tommorow though some of my notes are in previous hollywood mods.

Once I get rid of the buttons that enable fast crew hopping, this system will be much better i.e. anti cheat. Till then the penalties all tally so people should not really benefit from using them. Check the figures yourselves and give me your thoughts.

I say feel free and tweak yourselves as you may wish to do a weekly system rather than daily.

Its all to do with Kaa finding that other main cfg file that allows fatigue to continue in high time compression.

I tell you, we should have found this earlier but nevermind, the fun starts now. Especially with rubinis recent f1 documents buttons etc.

I am excited because I know this game has almost endless possibilities.

I can imagine that one day we could sail along the coast and see artilliary battles on land. especially with all this 3d modeling etc.

downloaded you mod and will test it tonight. If this mod works the way I think it will, it will truly revolutionize SH3. Great job. Im merging your mod with other mods, so I have to do alot of copy-pasting into the the basic.cfg. My question is: What did you change in the en_menu.txt? Also the scene.dat I use is the snorkelfix. What have you changed here? And what did you change in the Zones.cfg. Thanks alot, and again: Great work :up:

Are you sure it works that way in actual game? 'Cause after some testing I ended up with a conclusion that those parameters don't affect crews' quarters. FatigueStep does. Maybe I overlooked something.

But afaik you can't man gun stations during bad weather... Have you made it possible?


Btw, do you happen to know if the game does take the BadWeather parameter into account when submerged?

Have you found what does that parameter do? Did you try settinng it e.g to 30 or some other high figure?

You probably want to save yourself the time and not do that just yet. Considering that this is the beta release and all, it's gonna go through a lot of changes.

Yeah, I know. I kept a backup of the old files so I can go through the same routine when the final release is out. I use my own homemade mod, that changes the renown cost of torpedoes to 100 for TI and 25 for TII. TIII´s are in the middle with 50 renown. Also my boat is not equipped with toprs from the beginning. I have to buy my own. I think it adds...well...something.

What can I say. Im a merger :rock:

If you want more real history of the T-2 and T-3 difference in game and should be modelled, I read alot about this.

The only difference over the T-2 is the T-3 had a magnetic pistol added. The T-2 was only impact. Plus T-3 had better batteries. I wish this was add to the model. But OT. The T-1 is really over powered since the bubble trail does not give away the subs location during the day immediate and the ships really do not turn away fast enough. You could make the T1 warhead less powerful.

To the point of subject.

I found I think the click locations of the stations in menu. They are not called by their regular names. Something like Crew_Selection number 6 alot of entries. That one is for the 6 spots for the officers to click on in sub. called type horizontal_line.

The other entry is for the damage and watch officer spots, nub=2.

Then loads of 'lines' with the crew number to 12 across. Layers like a cake for position.

Another test scenario. Single mission, 1944 VIIC, wind 13.0, bright and clear skies.

A bomb (may have been two bombs... 250kg's from an Avenger) hits directly on the hull of test subject U-681, but it does not result in an instant death.
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/7325/174cs.jpg

Immediate damage results:
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/5789/140lm.jpg

U-681 then decides to do a little sinking...
Port view:
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/8198/167bd.jpg

Starboard view:
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/861/152hd.jpg



I was disappointed that I did not die immediately. After all, how many u-boats out there survived bombs directly to their hull?

But the full story is that after being struck by the bomb, I order a crash dive. As in my last test mission, the Captains Motivation room takes the most devestating damage (gouldjg, this may be a pattern that you might want to look into. That compartment may be too weak? Or other compartments may be too strong? Or it could just be the spot where the bomb hit... not sure).

The boat is incapable of descending nose down, so we sort of do an 'airplane-to-runway' style approach. Aft batteries are destroyed. Starboard (right) Electric engine is damaged, and we have almost no speed; flank seems to do nothing. About a minute later, we hit 70m but U-681 continues downwards to 90m or so.

Afraid we will go too deep (42% hull integrity), I hit 'E' repeatedly to blow the tanks. As we rise a little bit, flooding has stopped in the Captains Motivation room, but the sea water has yet to be fully pumped out (compartment about half full at this point). We get up to about 30m, but our compressed air reserves are just about empty. Although our nose is pointed up at about a 40 degree angle, with only one good electric motor, we are not able to generate any sort of velocity... So we begin to sink, again...

A minute later, our compressed air is fully depleted and the starboard electric engine is still a good 8-10 minutes from being repaired... 80m... 90m... 100m... Pipes burst... Steam vents... Sparks shoot... Lights flicker... Men scream... Oooooh, and then the scariest thing happens...


...


...


...


STATIC DEATH SCREEN APPEARS!!!

any questions?
*And this is my opinion, but death in this fashion is thrilling! Well, except for that darn death screen... :yep:

i think that is very realistic !!!

A bomb hit not always destroyed a target...this could punctured the outher hull and cause a flooding in the inner pressure hull.

some compartments could remain watertigh until the water pressure crush the boat

the only solution could be go out of the boat and jump to the water before it sinks .

This can be done since 1.4b.

Change the "StormConditions" parameter in every submarine cfg file (data\submarine) to

StormConditions=15,1

Ok, I guess it could be realistic...

In the end, though, the 250kg was the cause my death, so all is well, even if I didn't die immediately.

gouldjd, :P

I found how to disable the six quick box mode menus unter the sub on the crew screen. These will need to be disabled too.

Here is one of the six surface/underwater/attack mode quick button s at bottom on screen.

[G67 I676]
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x67000303
ParentID=0x67000000
Pos=731,207,32,32
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=4
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga
Crop 0=0,0.375,0.25,0.125
Mat 1=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga
Crop 1=0.25,0.375,0.25,0.125
Mat 2=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga
Crop 2=0.5,0.375,0.25,0.125
Mat 3=data\menu\data\crewicon.tga
Crop 3=0.75,0.375,0.25,0.125
MatFlags=0x1
TexFmt=0x5
Drag=false
BmpState=1 --------> change to zero will disable the click operation.
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=true
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF
ToolTipText=426

This is the Surface Attack quick box click mode. This is how to disable it not to work. Do it for all six modes. Now for the stations....soon. ;)

OK I disabled ALL mass clicking on stations. It is not perfect, but you can no longer click to mass move anyone. Example for Bow Torpedo.

[G67 I653]
Type=1030;Check box 1033
ItemID=0x6700005B
ParentID=0x67000000
Pos=880,465,65,38
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=8
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 1=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 2=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 3=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 4=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 5=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 6=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
Mat 7=DATA/Menu/Data/back.tga
MatFlags=0x1
TexFmt=0x9
Font=5
Text=250 ;bow torpedo
TextPosFlags=0x2
TextFlags=0x10
CheckBoxWidth=0
StatesColors=0xFF, 0xFF, 0xAA5800FF, 0xDD5800FF

The change of type from 1033 to 1030 causes no Bow Torpedo name to appear above the comparment, and thus you cannot click on it.

Now to make it perfect, all I need to do is disable it and still let the WORD name appear (only the 'Bow Torpedo Symbol' still shows).

This is what you want between these two post. No click on six quick mode icons, nor clicking on the comparment name to mass switch crew. Only the comparment name does not show, but the picture symbol shows for the station. All I need to do now is add the crop name to the symbol to get it to display the comparment name.
:rock:

Jungman you are great guy. :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

I am eagerly awaiting this disabled compartmnet name clicking function.

Could you please host the file on rapid share or other once your tests have been done. :up:

Yes Yes Yes this is getting better by the day.

Ok once this is done, I am going to look at a more realistic approach to crew management but need opinions from guys like you, Kaa and marhkimov. We will have to come to some sort of aggreement between realism and gameplay. Or make multiple systems so people can choose in a future release of SH3 commander. I like the random possibilities as well.

I know Kaa is doing a longer time based fatigue system.

Kaa I do not actually know if weather does effect if underwater or not however I am trying to simulate it should it do so. e.g. I have a lower drain rate in some compartments when under water. I just need to tweak to try and get a good balance.

As far as the rest rooms are concerned, I think it is a combination of fatigue step and specific factor. Which ever, it seemed to work.

With regards to damage

I still feel that I need to do some minor tweaks.

Guys I am not maths expert or modder really. I just love this game better than any and want to find a balance of realism without taking gameplay away.

This system seems to be going to plan.

Once we do this 24 hr version, we can then move to do longer systems for those who want at least a steady weeks sailing before man management.

Sunday is a bad day for me to work on this game as I have to play family man till 3 pm. Please excuse if I seem to be not able to anwer questions in long descriptive style. I am not being ignorant, I am just having wife down my neck.

However I will be back to work from 3 pm onwards.

Guys I just want to say this would not have been possible if it was not due to your efforts and to the efforts of people like Beery, CCIP etc, Thanks, you are making my game much better. :up:

It is my opinion that all compartments other than 'Captains Motivation' and 'Off Duty Quarters' are too easily repaired. By themselves, the crew just seems to be too efficient. These next two images show just what I mean...

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8419/190tv.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7914/204tt.jpg


The damage repair of 'Captains Motivation' and 'Off Duty Quarters' are pretty good...

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/410/182si.jpg

Maybe there´s something I don´t get, but what´s the point of removing a feature that can be sometimes even quite useful?