Long story short, it is extremely doubtful it could. As great as SPY-1 is, it is not meant for surface search. Low E (elevation) yes, periscope sticking up out of the water, no.

Even assuming it could (or you substitute in SPS-55/64/67/73 surface search radars), the max theoretical distance would be the radar horizon from your antenna (Hr). Here is the formula in case you like math or feel the irresistable urge to anger yourself:

Rnm = 1.23/Hr

Range in nautical miles equals 1.23 divided by radar height.

Height in inches and feet, Rnm meaning Range in the nautical miles and Hr representing height of the radar. It's actually slightly more complex than that, but for simplicities' sake I'm assuming that the sub skipper is competent and the periscope is just barely coming out of the water (equal to horizon, as opposed to adding another variable Ht, height of target).

If a radar is mounted forty feet high, the theoretical max range would be a little bit over seven-and-a-half nautical miles. Well within range of far too much ASuW nastiness. Eighty feet increases it to just about eleven nautical miles. Of course, there are various other factors involved, radar cross section, sea clutter/sea state, electromagnetic interference (which happens time to time), if the watch is asleep at his console, etc. A good rule of thumb is to automatically knock off a fifth of radar performance just becuase nothing works perfectly in the real world and another third for poor environmental conditions. Which leaves you with roughly six-and-a-half nautical miles with a somewhat decent chance of detection.

In the meantime, I'll be watching the SQR-19, beause I wouldn't enjoy swimming back to port.

And what does that say about the likelihood of getting picked up by a surface search radar?

There is one fact that needs to be addressed before such a thing as detecting masts can come to pass.

The fact that a mast is raised, is not transmitted across the wire to other players (multiplayer).

I did a test, in the bundled p3vsAkula scenario, where he raised the whole forest above the water, but I couldn't see him until the sail followed.

huh ?
well, the exact purpose of ESM and EW is to catch ennemy radar emissions, Kapitain ;)
and ESM is supposed to catch a radar at TWICE the distance this radar could see something.

LLOOLLL rip, sure you better not or you will break it.
And anyway a radar won't see anything in the water :roll:

yes it is ! except if there is no threat left, and just easy targets like unarmed merchants.
In this case, you can have an easy and faster solution with the radar, instead of making the TMA.

O. I dont dispute what you say But what is your source ?

I am sure that your right for aircraft but at sea level the same horizon limitations should apply to both radar and ESM.

Unless of course the distortion of the signal which interferes with over horizon radar reception is not enough
to hinder a bleed which ESM can trace. :hmm:

my source ?
My source is the way a radar works :

the radar send a beam, the beam reflect on the target them come back (and his analysed to make the picture)
So, to have the position of a target, the beam need to do TWICE the way (way to and way from).

But, from the target, the ESM just have to receive the beam, so the ESM receive the beam at half the distance of what the radar need to have the picture of a contact.
That's why I said ESM is supposed to catch a radar at twice the distance.

"Supposed" mean on a flat planet, and we all know our world is not flat :know: .

But ESM should pick up a radar ALWAYS before a radar can see the target, when the target is far and is approached by the radar emitter.

ESM always detects radars at a substantial distance farther than the radar can detect the ESM platform. In the case of submarine ESM this can be as much as 4 or 5 times as most radars can't detect the periscope at all. It will still detect the emitter later than either a surface or air contact based on the height of the recieving antenna. For the same reason you can pick up air radars from much farther away than surface. I won't even mention submarine radars as real submariners only use the radar on the surface.

O:I can accept both those statements. :up:

R: The original question focused on sub esm. You are saying here that in game the sub raising its esm mast
will receive surface detections at 4-5 times the range of its radar ? Mmmm I will try it :hmm:

If you refer to reality I would still with respect ask for 'public' source/s, articles or quotes.

R: Preliminary tests with Stock DW show -

5 Grishas at different bearings and ranges from my SW but all having N & S courses.

Sole ESM detection was at 11.5 nm. and at this range there was no radar contact.

The range was closed to the ESM target and radar detected this contact at 8.5 nm.

I should add that ESM did not pick up a Grisha at 20 nm - so it looks as if the limit is somewhere between 11.5 and 20 nm.

'Real-life' intrudes on testing but I expect that other reports of a sub ESM range of 15 nm could be correct.
Given variables of the surface units radiating mast height.

In that case OKOs ESM x2 Radar range (Approx) stands up.

Finalised test figures under the above near surface SW conditions:-

Max radar range - 10.6 nm (Fading) 10.8 nm (Disappeared). (Taken at 50 ft** 7 knts)

Max ESM range 13.5 nm. Taken at 51 ft ** 8 knts (Not 58 ft as best results in achieved at this depth on this dive)

**Avoiding breaking the surface with the tower.

It seems therefore that there is'nt a 100% improvement in the range capabilities of ESM v Radar,
in these circumstances, but a mere 27 % improvement.

Bellman, I have some question about your tests :

1) what was the sea state ? did you tried same test with sea state 1 and 5 ? it whould have REAL different values here, but I'm afraid this is not implemented in DW (the effect of heavy sea)

2) did you tested at radar depth and compared to surfaced subs (supposed to have larger range) ?

3) could you extend a bit your test to aircraft please ? especially Orion and MH-60 of course.
here you should have WIDE values.

thanks if you have some times to test this :P

The trigger for the discussion was Kapitains remark about his OSP when checking the target environment at near surface depth from his Ak.

My tests concentrated on this issue using the SW. Grishas were felt to be of a good medium height and a fair
sized target for ESM and radar tests. Sea state 3. Weather (?) Clear. Cloud base 4500 m.

I am sure surfaced sub tests ASuW units and anti AAW will confirm greater disparities between ESM and radar ranges.
My Harpoon experience confirms this. But forgive me my interest in DW is as a diver, so those areas
of interest are of little relevance currently.

:sunny: O:

Dont mean to sound sn**ty - I will have a look at this issue in the future but my short term objective
over the weekend is to have a good look at , and run some tests on, CM v torp performance in LWAMIs mod 2.01.

:lol: Very interesting .................................for divers. :yep: :o :hmm:

Sea state definately effects radar.

In a MP SW mission I was playing with very high sea state, my radar didn't see diddly even when I was on the surface (17m, but the sea was so high, I was on the surface with sail bridge access enabled), and there were definately returnable contacts within range under normal conditions.