May not be that big of an impact. Here in LA, there are a lot of big trucks that are either hybrid or full electric running around town; in fact, the local transit authority, which already has an all natural gas-powered fleet, is actively working with some Chinese firms on the implementation of all-electric buses on the service routes. Given that China, faced with serious air pollution problems, is rapidly moving in the direction of non-combustion engine vehicle development, they stand to profit from other countries' need to find non-petroleum alternatives. This is one of the reasons why the US oil industry and other related concerns are so in arms over the Paris Accord: now that demand for petroleum-based fuel products is sharply declining in the US and their market here shrinks, they had high hopes of expanding into other industrialized nations and other emergent economies, but, with the rise in ever more affordable alternate, renewable energy, the expansions are dimming...




<O>

And how about rural hillbilly county?
The majority of the worlds population doesn't live in a metropolis.:03:
Infrastructure for electric cars over here is developing but still far from being everywhere. So far you still have to know where you can get electricity before going on a longer trip.

Energy is energy, and physical principles cannot be violated.
That said, the energy to charge electric objects of all kinds has to be produced first. By moving the source of energy to centralized plants instead of having them built into cars only looks like aclean solution; burning coal or using reactors still pollutes the environment. AND you have drastic losses transporting this energy to where it is needed, then add charging losses.

Apart from that being dependent on electric energy is not such an advantage to being dependent on fossil fuel.

A battery car may look clean and does not stink, but we just shifted the problem to where it cannot be seen so directly.

We don't have hillbilly country in the City of Los Angeles anymore, it's very densely populated. When I first lived here in 1965, the population was about 2.6 million; when I moved to stay in 1970, it was 2.8 million; just recently, in 2016, the population edged over 4 million. It used to be there were some areas in the San Fernando Valley (a part of the City of Los Angeles) that were rather rural, but all those areas have been 'tamed'. A lot of those areas were settled in the 1920s and 1930s by rural 'refugees' from farmlands in states farther to the east of California who were fleeing the desolation and disaster of the Dust Bowl and other economic crises. Before they became 'citified', the Los Angelenos used to refer to them derisively as "Oakies". Don't find any "Oakies" in LA anymore. The total population of Los Angeles County is about 9.82 million, so there really isn't a lot of space for 'hillbillies'...

The need to map out charging stations was a bit of a problem here before, but with so many stations and units popping up, it is less of a worry. In fact, with curbside chargers being installed in increasing numbers, it is getting to the point of being a minor concern in LA...

Given that most city dwellers tend to drive primarily within the city (work, school, shopping, etc.), range is not a huge problem, but I can understand how it would be a major consideration in rural areas...

Perhaps the solution lies in another form of fuel such as hydrogen: it is easy to produce, is plentiful and the range of vehicles currently being produced is not too bad; for example, Toyota is selling a hydrogen-powered car, the Mirai, in California and the listed range on a full tank is 312 miles. That may not be as great as, say, a gasoline car with a 400 mile range, but it is better than an electric. Refueling is also better than an electric, averaging about five minutes to completely refuel an empty tank. The Mirai is a bit pricey at about US$57,500, list, but Toyota throws in up to three years free fuel...

Production of hydrogen fuel is also very easy to do; I recall seeing a documentary a few years back where they described a Scandinavian country where petrol gas stations were being converted to hydrogen and the production facilities were right on the premises; no need to have the fuel trucked to the station as with petrol; an interesting alternative, indeed...




<O>

Direct ties and ownership by the Chinese :hmmm:

Would be interesting to know what Trump thinks about the subject matter as it is highly likely he will be seeking multi-country sanctions against China at the forthcoming G20 Summit because of their failure to put pressure on Kim over the ICBM program he is currently taking.

Just saying.

I wasn't referring to L.A. but to the first world in general. There are plenty of one horse towns in Germany (and the US) where people don't have that sort of infrastructure and won't have it for some time. Everybody with an all electric Volvo will have difficulties visiting those areas. That's why I wouldn't drop combustion engines entirely just yet.

Oh, I'm not saying internal combustion engines will disappear entirely; they'll most likely fall into the realm of the diesel engine, useful for heavy lifting, but not really necessary in urban areas and everyday life...




<O>

Most rural people are poor ... these new electric hybrid cars are for rich people, seniors that go to the box stores and shopping centers less than 15 miles away. The cost of charging one of these at home must run up the ole electric bill too.

Another problem with electric cars is that they are so quite people are stepping out in front of them.

I for one would never pay that much for a Hybrid or an all electric car. I would buy several cars of the same make and model like pre-smog Chevy's and use them for parts when they get run down, before I would pay $30k for a Chevy Volt or Ford.

MSRP*: $33,220 - $37,570 Chevy Volt

MSRP*: $29,120 Ford Focus

My experience with pure electric golf carts has been you drive it about 500 miles over a three year period or so, and then you have to replace the battery bank of six for $300.00. Probably $450.00 now. :hmmm:

That's what sound modules are for. I believe some countries require them for electric cars (The Netherlands IIRC). So that's not really a problem that can't be solved.

That's one of my major concerns as well.

The whole electric car, electricity station is a chicken-egg type problem

People will be reluctant to build charging stations unless there is a supply of electric cars to use, and pay for them

People will be reluctant to buy electric cars unless there is a population of charging stations.

I would like to have a small electric car for my daily commute... if The Frau could have the larger vehicle for the weekends and for transporting the dogs and stuff.

I wish I could afford (money and space) to own two cars myself. One small electric commuter car and one larger one for the weekends and trips.

France has just upped the ante:

France Plans to End Sales of Gas and Diesel Cars by 2040 --

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/b...as-diesel.html





<O>

Just to clear the air a bit .. we will not be abandoning ICE (internal combustion engine) in 2019 (2020 MY) but rather all models will have an electric component such as pure plug-in electric, plug-in electric / gas hybrid and what is called "mildly hybrid" (like a Prius). Initially most vehicles will be electric/ICE hybrids. The gas component is expected to be around till 2025 or so. Currently the XC90 T8 Hybrid can be charged from any 220 outlet - full charge time 8 hrs. That is expected to drop significantly with engineering advances as is a maximum electric range anticipated to be close to 300 miles. Charleston SC will come online in 2018 and as a fully electic capable facility will then make all S60s worldwide. Currently plug-in electric hybrid adds about $12,000 to a vehicle .. that will need to drop significantly thru economy of scale and tech advances.

Just accounting for the influx of camels most likely. :03:

:haha:
Well, camels go entirely by sunlight (pure plant engine), if you think of it. Very advanced..