http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34034430

Looks like 11 dead now.

They are if they're an integral part of the aircraft escape system, in fact it's required for some ex-military aircraft:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%206...20Aircraft.pdf

Thanks for that. I was always under the impression that was why the Lightning couldn't fly here, turns out I was wrong. :salute:

I think the high rate in which they fell out of the sky has a fair bit to do with it. :yep:

67 spactators dead 3 pilots killed-the view at ground level
 

One of our members had a son at the Reno race:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=187930

I've been near to a few crashes, all of which I was oblivious to at the time. The first was a three-ship Jag take off at Coltishall, Sqn Cdr, another high ranker, and a relative new guy. The first two took off fine and the third didn't select reheat and clipped the barrier at the northern end of the runway, tried to eject but seat had moved on impact so he didn't make it. That was my first sobering experience of a station losing a pilot. I was in the Alt Operations Centre (the primary being refurbished) when the station crash alarm sounded, at about the time they tested daily - but there was no tannoy prior, and it didn't stop.

The second was at Pristina airfield, the Russian Minister or Defence was flying in to see his troops and his wingtip struck the runway, but was fortunately safe. His flight out was delayed though.

The third, and the closest I'll hopefully ever get to one was at Brize Norton. I was driving to the mess alongside the runway (road vehicles only on this stretch) and the Red Arrows took off right next to me. Well, eight out of nine did. The remaining one suffered a birdstrike and careered off the runway in my direction. 40 seconds later as I parked up the fire crews were running out the mess from lunch. As I looked back the Hawk had ended up right next to where I'd been. I've just had a quick Google for this incident but I can't find any reference to it at all but I swear it happened! :o

Oh, there was also Gulf Air Flight 072 at Bahrain, I was the only Brit working that night, at the norther end of Muharraq. The Airbus A320 crashed 3 miles off the coast and the first I heard of it was about 30 minutes later when a colleague in a night club phoned to see what was happening. I went outside and the air was filled with blue lights of the police cars, red lights of the ambulances (sadly none needed) and US helicopters all over retrieving the bodies in to the temporary morgue set up right next door to me. In fact it was on 23 August 2000 - exactly 15 years ago today. :o

I had a friend up in Kuwait who was coming down for work/celebrate my birthday (25th) but there was a period of national mourning so very little alcohol could be consumed.

Quite true and hopefully nothing will ever come close to matching Tenerife.

Possibly still the costliest (in lives ever). Approximately 20 years ago (mid nineties) my lad was watching a documentary on said disaster on the tv and said "Dad, isn't that where we are going?"

We were booked to go to Tenerife on a family holiday a week or so later.

It still is the deadliest in lives. Closets that came to it was JAL 123 and it was still 43 short. I hate to say it though but if one of the A380's in a single class configuration ever goes down you could be looking at 853 dead not including crew.

Doubt we'll ever see an A380 operating in all Y-class, though.

Wow..it is eerily similar to a photo I saw of Ramstein, with the moment of impact. I saw a disaster show once, featuring a dad & son who were missed by a whisker...scary stuff.

And I had thought much of Europe was very strict about what can and can't be done at airshows, ever since that disaster? Very sad regardless.

Honestly...we pretty much are, I mean this is the first time in 62 years that something like this has happened...not that you'd think this given some of the medias hysterics about it. The CAA has very strict guidelines about how aircraft are maintained, and the pilots that fly them have to also pass strict tests. I think in this instance a mistake was made somewhere down the line, be it mechanical or human, and a tragedy occurred.
Of course, in this day and age there is no such thing as an 'accident' any more. :nope:

Anyway, the CAA have banned elderly aircraft from doing performances over land now, seaside airshows aren't affected, but land shows will just feature standard flypasts. Which is better than nothing, I'll admit, and a good temporary measure while the AAIB get their report together.

On a slightly more selfish note, I imagine this tragedy will have put to bed any thoughts the XH558 team had of pulling a roll in the Vulcan over the sea before her retirement. Such a shame, as I bet she could have done it just fine.

And a closing thought about the CAAs decision...what qualifies as an elderly aircraft? The Hawks that the Red Arrows fly aren't exactly spring chickens, nor are the Sea Kings that have only just gone out of service for the Search and Rescue forces...and let's face it, the Canberra only stopped flying for the RAF in 2009. I, personally, don't think the aircrafts age is an issue, a well maintained craft can last for decades with no problems, and should a problem develop then it's usually quickly identified and the aircraft grounded. But, equally, it's only a temporary decision, and one taken to placate the media no doubt while the AAIB has a chance to conduct its investigation. The ban can be rescinded when the media are off chasing some other blood trail.

Ramstein had an immediate effect on UK airshows with restrictions on overflying the crowd. All this baying for blood by the media will hopefully not lead to further knee-jerk reactions and restrictions to our elder aircraft. The UK airshow scene is already dying, I remember the times when just about every airfield, both military and civvy, held their own. These inspired the youth to join air cadets, to join the RAF, to learn to fly - to keep the wheel turning. Seaside events are OK, but there's nothing like being a few hundred metres away from a Lightning, Vulcan, B-1B, or even a Typhoon during take off to stir the emotions in that direction. Further restrictions on land based shows are ridiculous, the dead weren't even attending the show. :/\\!!

I believe that decision has already been taken.

I don't doubt it'll happen for several reasons. Mainly because with air travel increasing the short haul full load flights will eventually demand one of them. Plus the savings of replacing 3 747's while using 2 A380's on the same route.

Well, that's been said many times but in fact things have been going the opposite way with high-capacity short haul. The last of the Japanese domestic 747s have been retired, and Boeing even cancelled the dedicated domestic 787-3.
It's mostly because the infrastructural improvements have been outstripping the growth in passenger numbers by a long shot. I think it'll stay that way through the A380s service life (especially if Airbus announce an end to its production, which is looking very likely to happen in the next year at this rate).

Who'd have thought there'd be some common sense journalism!

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...-crashed-on-it