Yeah, I'm wondering if it is something like that under the hood. Other than the feathering, there doesn't look to be anything unusual about the props in the videos, so it certainly doesn't look like prop failure. No signs of smoke or fire either. If it is some sort of complex fuel system or FADEC failure, that certainly doesn't have good implications for ATR.

And hmm, the preliminary transcript:

Doesn't even sound like a dual engine failure from that. It's also interesting to note that it had a cockpit crew of three, with the engineer being by far the most experienced.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/both-tran...090357131.html

Hmmm

I'm reminded of another sim session while training on the SAAB 340

I was pilot flying, captain was performing duties of non flying pilot

Right side engine failure during an ILS approach just inside the outer marker passing through about 1200 AGL

PF: (me) "confirm engine failure"
PNF: "failure of the right engine confirmed"
PF: "right power lever retard"
PNF: (correctly grabs right power level and reduces to flight idle)
PF: "right condition lever fuel cut off"
PNF: (grabs the left condition lever in the heat of the moment and reduces it instantly to fuel cut off)
Warning bell: ding ding ding
PF: "identify warning and cancel" at this point I'm noticing an increased sink rate
Warning voice: "glide slope. Glide slope"
PNF: "warning bell is left generator failure light... ****, I pulled the wrong condition lever!"
PF: "left ignition to normal!"
PNF: (click) "set!"
PF: "left condition lever to start and start switch left!"
The engine began it's startup but impact occurred before ignition could be obtained

From that moment on, in the sim and in the real aircraft - I took a peek at what the other pilots hands touched in regards to such processes every time I instructed him to do something regardless of what his experience level may be

Turns out the sim instructor had told the other pilot to do that so I would develop just that habit.

It's possible a similar problem occurred on that ATR?

Just noticed your post CCIP

Eerily similar to my post above. I would be very interested in reading the cockpit voice recorder transcript

Eerie indeed!

There also seems to be the implication that the FDR wasn't showing anything wrong with the left engine before it was shut down. Could this be something like BMI flight 92, where the crew became disoriented by a warning and shut down the wrong engine, losing power from both as a result?

Maybe. One has to be very careful about just grabbing levers and t-handles and flipping switches to address a problem.

A break down of communication between left and right seat I suppose. Also... I think I read somewhere that they had a pilot in the jump seat.

Almost wonder if too many people were "flying" the airplane.

One thing is certain... Asia has not had fantastic luck with keeping it's planes in the sky lately.

Yeah, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a crew of 3 in the cockpit, with the third being classed as Flight Engineer (it might be that they have some regulation forcing them to retain that position), who was actually the most senior of them by a long shot (the pilots had 4.5k hours a piece, the engineer had over 16k hours).

https://gma.yahoo.com/both-engines-l...opstories.html

:(

Wonder what made them shut down the wrong engine, if it was over-revving like the aforementioned example I could understand. An honest mistake possibly...the airline company involved is apparently putting all its pilots on a training course, perhaps to instill in them the same habit that GRs instructor put into him. :hmmm:

by complete mistake would be my guess

If i have one engine turning out thrust - even if it is surging or has a minor malfunction, and the other engine has totally crapped the bed... i can promise you between one failed and one acting funny, the engine cranking out the most thrust will run until it falls to pieces or we are back safely on the ground if it were my call.

according to the FDR the right engine was failed, and the power lever for the left engine was gradually reduced to idle followed by the fuel being cut off. I dont claim to know everything, Im certainly not typed on the ATR series, and i hate to "Monday morning quarter back" with incomplete information - but i cannot think of a single good reason to have shut down the left engine when the right had failed. especially during the ever critical phase of initial climb out.

Now - that said - it is based on translated information coming from the other side of the planet.

I dont give up the possibility that both engines failed simultaneously or nearly so... but as i said in previous posts, while possible, it is highly improbable that both engines would just check out at roughly the same time like that short of fuel exhaustion or something common to both engines not working properly

all indications - preliminary as they may be - are that the crew shut down the wrong engine by mistake.:nope:

As I mentioned earlier, to me the most obvious parallel is the Kegworth air disaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegwort...isaster#Causes

While the causes there are probably quite different, it basically boiled down to the crew interpreting signals incorrectly. Disconnecting the autothrottle and reducing power to the engines also temporarily alleviated vibration and other warnings from the damaged engine, making them think that the engine they shut down was the right one and the problem was gone, which of course cost them precious time.

It seems that in this case, it took the crew no more than 30 seconds to realize their mistake, but unfortunately by the time they could do anything about it they were already running out of altitude.

In situations like that, my guess is one of the first things that will be looked at is their training. In situations like that, you generally don't have time to think and your reflexes developed in training kick in. This could be a mistake, but it could also be an oversight in the company's procedures.