SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - New Alan Turing Film

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- - New Alan Turing Film (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=216858)

Otto Harkaman

01-09-15 02:23 PM

^ wow, yes how off the mark Leonardo DiCaprio would have been. I would have chosen Jim Parsons who plays Sheldon on Big Bang Theory.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...don_Cooper.jpg

I have to wait tonight to watch the movie when girlfriend gets home but I did take a quick couple minutes peak and Cumberbatch seems great for the part.

I did watch the movie "Codebreaker" a couple weeks ago. It dealt with Turing's arrest and the aftermath to his life.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV..._SX214_AL_.jpg

Penguin

01-09-15 04:29 PM

^ yep, Jim Parsons would be a perfect fit.

What I find a bit overlooked is the role of the hundreds of ordinary Johns and Janes who worked at Bletchey Park. People who were recruited for their skills at solving crosswords, puzzles, etc and thus had the right training and mindset necessary to break code.

Otto Harkaman

01-09-15 05:00 PM

^ Also if CCIP hadn't made me aware of the importance Wireless Direction Finding or also Wireless Traffic Analysis. I would have missed an important part of the intelligence puzzle. It gets lost I think in the current Alan Turing "Bombe" craze.

Here is a time link about Harry Hinsley in Secrets Of War, Shadows Of The Third Reich 07 The Ultra Enigma, which focuses on D/F
http://youtu.be/9sjoBm2obdk?t=20m42s

I said earlier I thought B.P. (Bletchley Park) was involved in the hunting of the Bismarck and Hinsley was at Bletchley but I am a little disappointed. Reading Beesly I couldn't wait to get to the chapter on the hunting of the Bismarck and I thought he would confirm to me that Bletchley was important in finding her. But right off he states "knowledge gained from cryptanalysis played a very minor part. :(

I am still not done with the chapter yet so...

Otto Harkaman

01-09-15 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP (Post 2261956)

Although there is an interesting note on Sink the Bismarck! on Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sink_th...rical_accuracy

So perhaps there's a bigger role Bletchley Park played than I gave credit for. The Luftwaffe intercepts were certainly decoded much more quickly than the Kriegsmarine ones. Still, it seems that the key decision in finding the Bismarck was taken on the grounds of DF rather than reading any of the messages, and the content of its own transmission to Paris was not known, at least certainly not until after the Luftwaffe message was read.

I think it's great that the story of Bletchley Park has now become much better known and movies are being made about it. At the same time, one should also not forget the Admiralty's very effective DF network, which was pretty much of equal importance and effectiveness in the Battle of the Atlantic as the crypto work at Bletchley Park.

Well now that I've gotten to this part this is what Beesly confirms. The decrypting of the Luftwaffe signals helped them figure out the Bismarck was headed towards France. But as you stated the DF network was very important. Although Beesly states they did have a problem at this end run where at first the DF plotting was vague and confusing. The codebreaking did help confirm the Bismarck's intention to head for Brest after much confusion with the D/F fix.

Beesly does state that a Luftwaffe signal to a high ranking officer in Athens was decrypted saying the Bismarck was headed to Brest at this time. The next morning this then is where the catalina was able to confirm Bismarck's position.

I don't know its all pretty confusing because he then goes to emphasise again the cryptanalysis played a minor part.

Rockstar

01-09-15 06:40 PM

Thing is everyone involved; humint, elint and sigint to one degree or another played a part in finding Bismark. And though one may have played more of a role over the other in finding her. The real prize is that if all three came to the same conclusions it provided hard evidence Brit intel sources were on the right track and working like they should.

Otto Harkaman

01-09-15 06:43 PM

^ Yes I agree

Otto Harkaman

01-09-15 11:35 PM

Well girlfriend was in a foul mood tonight so "Imitation Game" is on hold, I am going to watch (by myself) "Age of Heroes" which is about Ian Fleming's formation of the 30 Assault Commandos. I first became aware of the 30 Assault Unit from watching "Dieppe Uncovered" which I mentioned before. Beesly in his book gives a brief mention to the importance of "Pinch" raids to obtain Intelligence material. Supposedly according to David O'Keefe Dieppe was a "Pinch" raid to obtain one of the new naval Enigma machines. Obviously the "raid" went horrible wrong and it was covered up as a botched trial invasion.

Not expecting much from the movie, bad reviews, oh well need something to take my mind off of girls with caustic tempers.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV...14,317_AL_.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0AU_emblem.png

Sailor Steve

01-10-15 12:08 AM

Wow. I may actually have to go see this one in the theater. :sunny:

Cybermat47

01-10-15 01:47 AM

I would post the Beneficial Cucumber picture here, but I don't think it would be suitable :D

Otto Harkaman

01-10-15 09:27 AM

Well watched a good bit of that "Age of Heroes" last night. As critics said it was very low budget.

I think more could have been done with camera shots and portraying actually infantry tactics. No white camouflage smocks, dark clothing, crossing miles of open countryside in the snow in broad daylight, walking directly on the ridge line in broad daylight etc. etc. I guess the cameraman and director thought these were pretty shots.

Yeah it was pretty bad but got me asleep.

vienna

01-10-15 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 2276526)

Wow. I may actually have to go see this one in the theater. :sunny:

I went to the theater to see "The Imitation Game" about a week after it was released here in the US. I really dislike going to the movie theaters, but I was very curious to see the film. I can say it was well worth the effort. Well done and faithful to the history, even with artistic license...

Otto Harkaman

01-11-15 09:55 AM

Finally watched the movie last night. It was OK, pretty complex subject for a movie. Its almost a dramatization of all Bletchley Park and attributing everything to Turing which wasn't true. I liked it because I've been reading so much about B.P. and Enigma but it might be pretty confusing to someone who doesn't know what the movie is suppose to be about.

Tchocky

01-11-15 10:26 AM

Saw this the other night. Excellent film.

There's enough license taken to make the Bletchley elements more comprehensible/entertaining, but not so much that someone familiar with the story would find it jarring, a good balance.

Benesplonk Humperditch very good as usual.

Cybermat47

01-11-15 05:51 PM

Saw this movie yesterday. It's brilliant, and I highly recommend it.

Cybermat47

01-11-15 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman (Post 2276953)

I liked it because I've been reading so much about B.P. and Enigma but it might be pretty confusing to someone who doesn't know what the movie is suppose to be about.

I only know the basics behind B.P., and I still found it pretty easy to follow :)

Bilge_Rat

01-12-15 03:30 PM

On the Bismarck hunt, Blair's U-Boat history "the Hunters" and "the Hunted" as a lot of info on code creaking.

first, Naval Enigma was supposed to be the strongest of all the German codes.

They did not break Naval Enigma in 39-40, part of the reason for the "Happy Days" slaughter in late 40.

The British were only able to break Naval Enigma intermittently in 1941 and only after they captured key Enigma parts from U-110 on may 9, 1941. Therefore doubtful Enigma was much use in tracking Bismarck two weeks after the capture of U-110.

The Germans changed Naval Enigma in early 42 and the British were not able to re-break it until aug. 42. They were then able to read Naval Enigma from that point until 45.

Otto Harkaman

01-12-15 04:06 PM

Yes it mainly seems to have been done with wireless D/F. But some Luftwaffe signals seem to have been important, if only for confirmation. Beesly in his book states none of the messages were decoded in time to have had an effect on operations.

From wiki
British code-breakers were able to decrypt some of the German signals, including an order to the Luftwaffe to provide support for Bismarck making for Brest, and the French Resistance provided the British with confirmation that Luftwaffe units were relocating there.

There was also the message to a high ranking Luftwaffe officer in Greece that I mentioned above.

Interesting reading there I hadn't known this, from wiki
Prinz Eugen 's radio-intercept team decrypted the radio signals being sent by Suffolk and learned that their location had been reported.

Interesting when you think of the timeline of some events, a lot happened that summer.

U-110 Captured, 9 May 1941, sunk the following day
Bismarck Scuttled following incapacitating battle damage, 27 May 1941 in the North Atlantic.
Weathership Lauenburg Sunk 28 June 1941

Thanks! Have to track down those books by Blair:)

Bilge_Rat

01-12-15 04:35 PM

As I recall the Luftwaffe code, I think it was called "Red One" was less secure then the others and was read fairly consistently by the British during the war, although as I recall from Blair (it has been a few years since I read it) this had more to do with lax procedures on the part of Luftwaffe operators than a problem with their Enigma machine. Breaking the Luftwaffe code was a major break since it gave the British insights in what to look for in breaking the other German codes.

The Germans were also able to frequently break most British naval codes and to decipher a lot of stuff in 39-42.

The big difference is that the British knew their codes were vulnerable and were always changing them and tightening their security procedures while the Germans were convinced that Enigma was unbreakable, which turned out to be their weak point.

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