[QUOTE=Sailor Steve;2097804]Interesting debate: and not far removed from our subsimming passion, as in Germany the game we play cannot have certain flags?? However as a Federal security officer often charged with daily flag duty and as a Civil War reenactor, I'm somewhere in-between on the issue. I've participated in formal Fourth of July parades and that military review stand salutes either the US flag ( Damnyankee) or the rebel battle flag with equal enthusiasm as they go by. What strikes me as peculiar is that parade permits are still issued to the KKK as a function of free speech yet flag issues of a considerably less offensive nature when conducted in a historical context are 'verboten'. We don't disallow the redcoats a British flag at Williamsburg or any of the revolutionary related events and they were slave owners too..

Down here, we would refer to you as a "Bummer".

Interesting, the Danville Museum does fly the Va 3rd state flag which has a Confederate flag in it's corner. Even though it's overall state property, the house has 3 deeds, two are private. Where the Confederate flag is, about 10 sq feet of ground is privately owned within the property. Guess that's one way to solve the issue, however it was done.

Well I wouldn't fly it myself, but I have seen many marches where it was flown.
One thing many don't seem to understand is that 90/95% of the people who fought under that flag didn't own slaves and the right to keep slaves was not a major issue to them. They fought because they saw their country as under attack from a foreign power. And many blacks fought under the same flag once the South needed help and promised them freedom if they would fight. Many black leaders do not want that to be made public but it's a simple fact of history very easily proven.

"You can fly any flag you like but be prepared to have someone make a statement about it".

Very true. But you can't fly a CSA flag can you?

The South didn't go to war, we left the union and were invaded.

What Ducimus said. Historical sites should be able to fly both flags, stars and stripes on top and stars and bars on bottom.

Its much like the many mexican and other central/south american immigrants who fly their flag, but not the U.S. There have been cases of students here in california raising the mexican flag on a school's flagpole and then flipping the american flag upside down. Or when they are protesting they'll be waving primarily mexican flags, yet few if any American flags.

In a slightly similar manner some southerners will fly only the confederate flag. To me it seems disrespectful to the United States as a whole, inferring to me that you still harbor grudges about the unity of this nation.

All of this i find as a slight affront to the nation they live in. If i moved to France to live out the rest of my life and felt like honering my heritage as an American, i would fly the french flag above the american flag, to show that i respect and enjoy the nation i live in, while honoring the heritage of my birthplace and origin. My opinion is that this is how it SHOULD be done.

If you're gonna fly the flags of your ancestors, having been raised in this country all your life, then at least fly both flags when applicable. Its understandable in a setting like a reenactment that you only fly one as per historical context.

See you at old Ft Point where my unit occasionally re-enacts for the U.S. parks department. With much red-tape paper work typical of a Ft. Sumpter style fort, we got the garrison size flagpole restored at the top parapet. Real re-enactors go both ways especially when used in film extra work as in Glory or North and South. Your opinion matches my own and is well considered and temperate. We are a multi-flag nation where free speech and latent political incorrectness are normal!:arrgh!:

If the people in the south wish to fly the confederate national flag (stars and bars) I could understand and approve.

However, what the wish to do is fly a battle flag of an entity that was at war with our country. That is quite different. A battle flag is a symbol of hostility, a national flag could be considered a symbol of pride/heritage.

As opposed to a scalawag or carpetbagger. Technically bummers marched with Sherman not the honorable if inept Army of the Potomac. HOT DAMN!:arrgh!:

Untrue, regardless of how many times you repeat it.

All of the Southern state flags were adopted during the war. This doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is that I don't know what they replaced. Even looking online I can't find what the flag of, say, Alabama was prior to 1861.

Do you know what the original state flags were?

It is my understanding, from some research online, that many states didn't have an official flag before the Civil War.
e.g., Alabama

Flags Of The World.com

Right. The revisonist "state's right's version" and the one where the South fought to maintain the economic advantage that slavery gave them, which boiling it down to the lowest common denominator - fighting to maintain the institution of slavery.

Oh barf. Read the declarations of secession. In their own words it was about slavery.

Well no duh. Slavery gave the South a great economic advantage and they fought to maintain it. Saying that there's a difference there is intentionally obfuscating the issue.

No, the North was not in the business of doing the right thing because it was the right thing. The North didn't fight to end slavery so much as the South fought to keep it. The two aims may be diametrically opposed, but it wasn't the motivating factor for the North.

And most Nazis who fought for Hitler didn't kill any Jews. So what.

And since this has gone completely off the rails and I'm going to get my hand smacked for taking the discussion there, let's bring it back -

Why does the South really celebrate the Civil War? They got their asses kicked. It was fought for a crappy purpose, no matter how many coats of revisionist shellac they want to put on it. And even if they swallow their own BS on that, it's still war - a war where hundreds of thousands of men and boys died fighting their countrymen. Why does it need to be a source of pride? War is not something to be proud of. It's an ugly and disgusting thing that is the last resort and there's no glory in it. It's diplomacy by force. Why these people want to commemorate such an ugly time in this country's history by flying that flag is beyond me. And in an official capacity - these state governments who fly the Confederate flag - it's a flag of rebellion. That's pretty screwy. You're a part of the government, yet you're going to make your state symbol a historic symbol of rebellion against the government. Makes no sense.

Most didn't have state flags before the war, some used seals. I think Va and SC may have had a state flag before the CW.

Now that I didn't know. It does explain some things.

Off-topic, another big peeve of mine was that I have a book of Flags Of The World. It has the flags of all the French provinces, but none of the Italian ones. At least I can look those up online now. :sunny:

What puzzles me is the dislike the flag seems to get even when flown under the Stars and Stripes.

If I fly the CSA Flag,it does not mean I condone slavery. It does not make me a racist. It does not mean I find pride in the killing of 600,000 Americans over ideological reasons. To me,the CSA Flag is simply a part of my upbringing. And so long as it is flown respectfully and properly,I fail to see how this makes me a bad person. If the Cause is not being glorified,then I see no harm in a CSA Flag being flown.

You're free to fly it and display it. My problem is it's being pushed out of federal and state property, parks and museum, even if being used in historical context.

It's pretty bad when a "Museum of the Confederacy" can't fly one.

Providing a biased source does nothing to back up your claims.
After all an author who does "pro south studies" lacks any balance, and a "traditional southern agrarian" sure likes the way them plantations were set up.

Nah, just the big plantation owners liked it. Those folks were not the cause of the war.
As a native of the emerald isle, sir, I don't see you as having a dog in this fight. It's just the typical history written by the victors and what they write is usually 99% hogwash. So why shouldn't a southerner try to set the record straight, biased or not? King Abraham was the major cause of the conflict with his "proclamations" and the same old tired GOP rhetoric that has been attempting to circumvent the constitution both then and now.:hmmm:
I still feel that General Sherman should have been tried for war crimes. Just for the burning of Atlanta alone. Lincoln got what he deserved. All the south got out of it was wrecked. Damn Yankees!

Yes, quite silly. Nothing like being spoon fed what some feel you should see and understand.