IMO legality is immaterial. Mass surveillance of the American people without their knowledge let alone permission is just plain wrong.

I agree.

But the only channel for that permission is the legislative process. Which says this is legal, and borne from legislation enacted by elected officials. The Supreme Court hadn't ruled on the Patriot Act (ugh, did it have to be called that?) so the legality isn't in question yet. The knowledge part is trickier. Legitimate security concerns run up against the obligation of transparency and I don't know how to square that circle.

Well maybe it'll make the SC now.

That's it. I'm emigrating to a tiny Micronesian island.

Go Snowden, go!

I mean like, what.
all he did is bring the news that big brother is indeed real... to the public.

Nothing wrong with that, if you ask me. I hope the man gets a face swap and a sex change, whatever it takes to slip off the Radar...
...and lives a tranquil and productive life without procecution.

Oh what a wicked web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

Eddie boy collected the web and placed it on black velvet for all to see.

The spider is pissed.:stare:

This crazy, well-armed, self proclaimed world police officer, brainwashed to be special, who cares about laws only if they fit to his intentions, who killed thousands of innocent civillians without being brought to justice, who spies upon everyone, including his own friends, is mad about a little boy who took a picture of his dealings, shows it to the public, and manages to hide from his revenge. He's embarrassed to be caught red handed, with his pants down and exposed to the laughter of the audience.
Expect cameras to be forbidden under the new "Patriots need no Cameras Act". Critics will be named unpatriotic, and those feeling free in their controlled surveillance will back it up, because it is the law.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

In a time of universal surveillance - telling the truth is a terroristic act.

Telling the truth seems to be a bad idea. We're joining the dark side.

Personally, I find that obvious frustration highly amusing. Obama want's Snowden..... badly. You pile this NSA/Prism scandal on top of the IRS and everything else that's going on, and it's makes Obama look even worse then he did previously. So of course Obama want's snowden's head on a pike (metaphorically speaking). On top of that, he's exposed a blatant power/control grab by our government, and that makes the political elite's unhappy panda's when us Plebians know what their up to. That constitution and bill of rights is a pesky thing for them.



I would agree with an opinion that the United States does not have the global power and influence it previously enjoyed, regardless if our politicians realize it or not. I think many nations may see the US as looking inward (as well we should), and less outward, and their actions or inactions on the global stage when dealing with the US may reflect that.


Personally, I draw a distinction between Snowden and Mannings.

Snowden:
Exposed a broad over reach of governmental power and in my opinion violations of our civil liberties. In specific the fourth amendment, and he did so without revealing too much in the way of speciifcs. Names, plans, internal memos' ,etc. He just gave a summary or general overview of what our government is doing to us behind our backs. In my opinion, not a traitor, because his motives seem to be keeping with ideals of freedom and liberty, which is what our country is founded upon. Now, I wouldn't call him a hero, but I would say he has the courage to follow his convictions.

But again I don't think he's a traitor because all he did was confirm that yes, big brother IS watching, something Terrorists already knew. Now our government want's his ass because he exposed them for what their doing, and their going to break out "the tools" to sweep him and everything he said under the rug because it is a threat to their power.

Mannings:
Gave away specifics. Names, time tables, memo's, plans, etc etc, documentation that has tactical value to insurgents, terrorists and the like. That's a traitor, to his brothers in arms, and his country.

Wrong in several ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o2djiZOxyA

It's beginning to look like the Russians are resorting to the use of 'technicalities' to deny any involvement or knowledge of this gentleman's whereabouts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23045790

Watch the POTUS get a big dose of medicine...
 

From Doctor Benjamin Carson. Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns-Hopkins.

Granted, this video has nothing to do with the topic at hand but, it does enumerate the reason/s for this subject even seeing the light of day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNYAR7SZaIw

Brilliant speech!

The eagle has a right wing and an ultra-right wing. Therefore it flys a bit strange.

Maybe this is a good to test a drone on an American who has leaked information and currently on foreign soil.

Sure, attack any suspect and if it wasn't Snowden, declare the victims sympathizers and supporters who deserve in anyway.

Standard procedure of a constitutional democracy. Suspicion is justification enough to die. Legal trials and the chance to defend yourself are just a waste of money and time.

Hit them hard and let God sort them. This is the human rights the kids in uniform fight, kill and die for.

Putin has confirmed Snowden is in the transit area of the airport and is accompanied by legal advisers from the website Wikileaks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23053915

I didn't mention Mannings. Didn't know who he was until you brought him up. That said, now that I do know I see that it's a good comparison. :sunny:

Does this lend some ironic similarity to the saying...
"That which you hate the most you become" ?

The USA used to be the provider of asylum. Not a place to seek asylum from.
Why no. They're not stomping on anyone's freedom. Much.

Here's some steak for your black eye Mister President.:arrgh!:
Reindeer games can get a bit brutal.

I know you didn't. However when you said, "Did Snowden reveal secrets that could get our own people killed? If so, then he deserves prosecution", the first thing that came to my mind, was Mannings, and once that thought crept into my head, i couldn't help but make a comparison.

Why b*tch? America and the UK, Europe and the world population has gotten what it deserves.
each and every yank crying outrage gets what he/she deserves...
as it was for a thousand years.

It could be argued that what comes round goes around but I don't think this issue is anywhere finished yet :hmmm:

Ah. Sometimes I'm so easily cornfused. :doh: