SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)
-   Helosim.com and Flight Sims (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=216)
-   -   Good FSX Teachings? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200775)

Skybird 01-06-13 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith (Post 1988907)
Oh and you mentioned FS9?? How is FS9 with Addons?? Can it look as good and perform as good as FSX?? Because if so I might try getting FS9 and playing with Traffic Addons and graphics addons if it can look almost as good but run better.

It can be made looking much better than default, and look almost as good as FSX, but not completely (of course). If a stable installation can be acchieved. On my old rig, it was. On my new one: it was not. If you want a traffic-heavy environment, it might be an alternative.

But on the other hand, FSX has traffic tools as well, and people can run them if they have the specs.

Let'S try to fix your rig first. Ask the guys at Avsim.

P.S. And give them your notebook'S specs and ask them what to expect from that hardware in FSX.

Skybird 01-06-13 07:17 AM

Thinking on your glass panel issue, you could try in the gfx driver to switch all options to very conservative settings, or switching them off. You could reach that by right-click on the desktop, then -> nVidia System -> 3D settings -> Tab program setting -> FSX. Leave Antialias and Ansitropic Filter to - application controlled", but tone down the other options or leave the to "general". Make sure the nVidia power-setting for the gfx is for "maximum performance", its in the same menu, and switch off multiple monitors.

reignofdeath 01-06-13 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1989019)
Thinking on your glass panel issue, you could try in the gfx driver to switch all options to very conservative settings, or switching them off. You could reach that by right-click on the desktop, then -> nVidia System -> 3D settings -> Tab program setting -> FSX. Leave Antialias and Ansitropic Filter to - application controlled", but tone down the other options or leave the to "general". Make sure the nVidia power-setting for the gfx is for "maximum performance", its in the same menu, and switch off multiple monitors.


Well the thing is it has only happened once or twice. I have come to the conclusion today that the OOM errors do not occure at a specific time, or weather pattern as well. Yesterday I flew a 30 minute flight in a 737, and today I flew an hour and a half flight around Honolulu in a Cessna. Go ahead and take those links down, I cannot use them really from these computers as it is, once I get my personal internet set up in the next few weeks, if you could post them up again and I can thumb through them.

I think my case just seems to be like as you said, some times, FSX decides to play nice, and others, not so nice.

I wanted more traffic so I increased ground traffic to 10% and Airline traffic to 43% and landed in LAX without frame issues at all. Then I did that flight to Chicago, and OOM (With the glass panel issue) 10 mins after takeoff from Cleveland Intl and then on my approach the second time to Chicago. A third time I took off from Chi Ohare (the previous airport I tried to land at the last few times) and flew to KIND without a hitch using the same weather conditions. So for now I feel like it just likes to be finnicky.

My Graphics Card has its own onboard 2GB dedicated memory. Its an Nvidia 660m.

The only other game I have problems with is SH5 and the problem is that Sobers see through wake fix makes my wakes dark black at night which shouldnt happen, and I get banding in the sky at night. Some have mentioned a driver being responsible, and I have yet to switch to the newest Nvidia 660M driver that came out, I meant to but havent yet. I think I may try it out and then if nothing changes or it gets worse roll back.

I am also only runing FSX Im not sure which SP but I want to get Acceleration, is it worth it??

And about X plane, is its performance on computers more taxing, less, or comparable?
---------------------

Now an FSX question and story.

So on my long 1.5 hour flight today I got the chance to REALLY play around with the GPS and the systems of the Cessna (Small one) and gotta say I finally figured out the working of the GPS. I was able to find my airports, their elevations, and the runways and even set it to certain approach vectors.

Now my question is this, one runway in Honolulu is 4r and 4l and then at the other end its 22r and 22l. So if they direct me to come in on runway 22R does that mean they are having me land from THAT end of the runway? ( I was using VFR rules so I wasnt given a bearing to switch to) Next is what are the keys to see your FPS again? And the keys to do sim speed?

Skybird, I know this is alot but I thank you for all of your kindness and help, you are really helping me through this step by step which I appreciate. I have certainly learned alot about flying and am getting better and better every day (No overspeeds anymore :) And my landings are getting smoother) Thank you sincerely sir:salute:

Herr-Berbunch 01-07-13 03:21 AM

Runway designation is always the direction of travel - 22 is 220 degrees (plus/minus 5) - whether landing or taking off. That is the direction you should be flying on approach.

Key for seeing info is Shft+Z, scrolls through two sets of info and on the third press displays both lines.

Edit - just re-read, by sim speed I'm now guessing you mean time compression?

reignofdeath 01-07-13 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1989411)
Runway designation is always the direction of travel - 22 is 220 degrees (plus/minus 5) - whether landing or taking off. That is the direction you should be flying on approach.

Key for seeing info is Shft+Z, scrolls through two sets of info and on the third press displays both lines.

Edit - just re-read, by sim speed I'm now guessing you mean time compression?

That would be correct.

Oh and by the way, I forgot to add a thanks to you as well:salute: You have been quite the help Herr!

Lionclaw 01-07-13 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1989411)
Runway designation is always the direction of travel - 22 is 220 degrees (plus/minus 5) - whether landing or taking off. That is the direction you should be flying on approach.

:oops:

Oh dear.

I've been playing flight simulators since Microsoft Flight Simulator 98, and I didn't know that runways are designated that way. :-?

Even when lining up on the runway and setting the heading to runway heading, I never figured it out. :oops:

Thanks H-B, I've learned something new today. :up:

Skybird 01-07-13 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith (Post 1989363)
Well the thing is it has only happened once or twice. I have come to the conclusion today that the OOM errors do not occure at a specific time, or weather pattern as well. Yesterday I flew a 30 minute flight in a 737, and today I flew an hour and a half flight around Honolulu in a Cessna.

Well, that leads me to assuming - as a relative tech novice - that it is something with the memory allocation, in other words: something in the system. But it could also be that when some function or dll inside FSX gets called up, it breaks, when it is a bad dll, or gauge. HJowever, you have not installed any suspicious addon stuff, and I assume you have not changed Windows dll's for other purposes that FSX is using, too. - So - I am not really able to help there, you must find a tech guru and/or ask at a forum where more knowing guys can analyse it.

Quote:

Go ahead and take those links down, I cannot use them really from these computers as it is, once I get my personal internet set up in the next few weeks, if you could post them up again and I can thumb through them.
Will do that. Just ask.

Quote:

I think my case just seems to be like as you said, some times, FSX decides to play nice, and others, not so nice.
While FSX is not coded well, they say, it must be possible to get it into a stable condition nevertheless, considering that you use no addon stuff so far. Symptoms lie this do not show ob without being caused by something. There must be a cause, or several ones.

Quote:

My Graphics Card has its own onboard 2GB dedicated memory. Its an Nvidia 660m.
That should keep you free from any Vid memory allocation problems. Sometimes OOM do not hint at short memory problems at all, but adress problems, that'S why I asked (in principle there still is enough meory space, but the heaps in which it is divided are all smaller than the blocks the software is writing, so while in total there is enough space, the applications runs out of sufficient slots in sufficient sizes to park its stuff in.

Quote:

The only other game I have problems with is SH5 and the problem is that Sobers see through wake fix makes my wakes dark black at night which shouldnt happen, and I get banding in the sky at night. Some have mentioned a driver being responsible, and I have yet to switch to the newest Nvidia 660M driver that came out, I meant to but havent yet. I think I may try it out and then if nothing changes or it gets worse roll back.
Sounds like driver issue indeed. But try several drivers, if the first one does not work. In the past I have tried up to 4 versions when getting a new gfx board before I found a version that worked for all my installed stuff.

Quote:

I am also only runing FSX Im not sure which SP but I want to get Acceleration, is it worth it??
What...??? No SP? Hell, then I do not wonder anymore. That is a no-go, and I see very good chances that your problems will go ionce oyu have installed SP1 and SP2, or get the Acceleration edition (FSX Gold). Those patches added many tehcnical bug fixings, and many if not all addons depend on them being installed.

So: first thing you do is get out there and bring your FSX to the Acceleration standard!

50% + chance that doing so will cure your issues.

Quote:

And about X plane, is its performance on computers more taxing, less, or comparable?
I think it is or is planned to become soon multicore optimised, which FSX is not. That is all I can tell you about it, I do not have it.

I posted a video somewhere down in the forum, for "Polish flyers", so was the title I think. Find that thread and watch the video, it is heavily modded XPlane and some of the modded stuff was made for private use only - , but shows you what is possible with it. Great potential. And ongoing technical developement.



Now an FSX question and story.

So on my long 1.5 hour flight today I got the chance to REALLY play around with the GPS and the systems of the Cessna (Small one) and gotta say I finally figured out the working of the GPS. I was able to find my airports, their elevations, and the runways and even set it to certain approach vectors.

Quote:

Now my question is this, one runway in Honolulu is 4r and 4l and then at the other end its 22r and 22l. So if they direct me to come in on runway 22R does that mean they are having me land from THAT end of the runway? ( I was using VFR rules so I wasnt given a bearing to switch to) Next is what are the keys to see your FPS again? And the keys to do sim speed?
Has been answered by others, I just add this: when you do a full ILS landing, which you probably are tempted to do, be aware that ILS on RW 22w for example does not necessarily mean landing course indeed 220°. It could be anything between 216 to 224. If you set your ILS course to 220, the plane could get steered seriously off the runway, starting with some suicidal last second steep banks to intercept the lost localiser again, and that is a recipe for disaster. The correct course you do not get via radio, but only via maps - printed ones, or the map function in the sim. Check that before you launch. Every flight - needs preparation and planning ahead. The paperwork, that is.

Using the time acceleration in FSX is not recommended. Especially with the more complicated planes (addons) can get seriously out of tact when using it. When you use a real FMC module like the default planes do not have it, most simmers consider time warps to be a big No-no.

If you still want to do it, use it only when on travel altitude and in totally stabilised flight attitude, and stop using it before T/D. There is a menu under "options", I think, for setting up steering and control, where there is a list with all keyboard commands in use. You can reassign them also. You may want to tone down your joystick sensitivity maybe, while you are there. Use a dead zone and a sensitivity of around one third, that should be working well in most situations. Note that the default planes, especially the small ones, are incredibly hysteric grasshoppers. They are not realistic at all. One would risk one's life if boarding a real airplane with flight dynamics like those. :)

Quote:

Skybird, I know this is alot but I thank you for all of your kindness and help, you are really helping me through this step by step which I appreciate.
Thanks, but so far I am only showing good will, but no real help - I was unable to give you the advise that helps you to solve your issues. I hope that updating your FSX does the trick. Then we can talk addons. Better GPS modules, for example. :D The nice thing about FSX is that although it is a simplified toy, it is strictly modular in structure, and all and everything can be removed and replaced with something better, turning a toy into a sim. Some aircraft addons rip all the core out of it and place a completely new simulation into FSX superficial framework. And then it is when this title really starts to shine.

Quote:

I have certainly learned alot about flying and am getting better and better every day (No overspeeds anymore :) And my landings are getting smoother) Thank you sincerely sir:salute:
Üben, üben, üben! :D I hope the FSX update solves your issues, then we can talk the real fun stuff.

:yeah:

P.S. I see that Amazon.com has the Acceleration pack for 21 dollars, and the FSX Gold inclduing all stuff and the defualt version for 27 dollars. Should be possible to get both for less. Acceleration includes Service Packs 1 and 2, and adds additional mission stuff and some planes, I think. Over here I have seen Acceleration pack for around 15 bucks at times.

Could be that you need to retweak the fsx.cfg once Acceleration or Service Packs 1+2 have been installed. I would even consider a complete new installation of FSX alltogether, just to be sure. Don't forget registry cleaning, defrag!

Sledgehammer427 01-07-13 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1989466)
then we can talk the real fun stuff.

Like landing Accusim Mustangs in IMC on a short field?

That puts hair on your chest. :up:

Skybird 01-07-13 03:28 PM

I more thought about how to calculate the crosswind component for each flight section and what effect it has on your general fuel calculation. :smug:

Skybird 01-08-13 04:11 PM

@Casey,

you see you're not alone, in case SP2 does not solve your problems:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/396263-...ntly-unstable/

Not really comforting, but still...

Two alternmatives. X-Plane I just mentioned, but be advised that there are some major differences between it and FSX.

The other option is to try the student'S licence of Lockheed's Prepar3D . They bought the rights for FSX and have started to push further developement on basis of the FSX core code, that's why it looks almost identical to FSX, it also is compatible with FSX addons, at leats most of them, and new FSX addons are made to be compatible for sure, since word has made the round that many people use Prepar3D as a replacement for FSX. I just have not been able to secure solid info on to what degree they indeed improved the code over the original FSX code. Lockheed does a very inferior job in that regard, but then, their market is a very different one, a bit like with Steel Beasts: private home users are not their main interest with Prepar3D.

I myself would be willing to give Pepar3D a chance if I would get solid confirmation that they have turned it into a truly multi-core-optimized platform. My beloved 737NGX also is compatible with it, like almost all addons for FSX.

The scope of Prepar3D goes beyond that of FSX and its flight simming aspect. Lockheed'S commercial video - but I cannot tell you whether the shown content is part of the package for the public, I do not know. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYQ5dP0WOFA

Homepage
http://www.prepar3d.com/

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_Prepar3D

Comparing videos for both:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSHrsHees8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQrC5kC1vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpodDiAwFQ4

Skybird 01-08-13 04:24 PM

One year old, but still:

http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums...d-academic-50/

There have been three or four release versions since then.

I like this comment by someone: "It'S smoother, it is FSX looks with FS9 performance".

If I ever run into FSX problems again and need to reinstall FSX, I might try this one instead.

reignofdeath 01-09-13 07:33 AM

Wow I gotta say Prepar3d looks promising. But if I were to get it, Id be tempted to get proffesional for the more diverse aspect. Chances are if its being developed by LM that the birds should be realistic?? Hopefully they multi core support it so I can make use of all this POWAAA!!:haha:

Herr-Berbunch 01-09-13 08:38 AM

I really think the Academic version makes more sense, even to someone like Sky who flies accurately (or does he?* :hmm2: ) with IMC shelling out four times as much seems a bit OTT for features that the casual sim pilot will never use.

And it's certainly not worth it to remove the small, unobtrusive watermark.

*I wholly understand that I have no room to take the piss here!

Skybird 01-09-13 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1990222)
I really think the Academic version makes more sense, even to someone like Sky

Öh - did I even mention the versions, not to say: objected to your hint? The full license costs 200, the academic license just 50 dollars. And 200 is a little hefty for just a small watermark being removed.

I had doubt about that a year ago or so, when I had not seen it on pics.

This is what it looks like, top right corner:

http://h13.abload.de/img/2012-4-14_21-11-47-61wheb0.png

No concern at all.

Skybird 01-09-13 08:59 AM

Alles klar, Herr Berbunch, I did not realize that Casey has posted and that you were answering to him.

Addendum: I occasionally stumbled over rumours that they are working on a Prepar3D 2.0, which may have DirX11 support, and maybe even multicore support. If my FSX holds out that long, and if that new one promises to run my many addons, I probably will wait for that.

Skybird 01-09-13 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith (Post 1990200)
Wow I gotta say Prepar3d looks promising. But if I were to get it, Id be tempted to get proffesional for the more diverse aspect. Chances are if its being developed by LM that the birds should be realistic?? Hopefully they multi core support it so I can make use of all this POWAAA!!:haha:

Keep in mind that this is in principle FSX with code optimizations. It is no new flight sim with all out new content. It looks and probably feels like FSX, but performs better on most systems. Addon planes made for FSX work with P3D, usually, this also idnicates that there is no all-out new flight model (more realsim") included. Although some new planes were added to it with various releases, on which I canot comment, I do not expect the FSX default birds to behave different.

Consider one or two really good plane addons for more realism. Say, one small-to medium and one medium to big sized aircraft, depending on your preferences. There is a reason why serious simmers avoid all FSX default planes completely. Save the 150 bucks for the pro P3D version and use that money on one or two planes, REX, ASE, and if you want: two or three sceneries of your most favourite destinations. Planes first, weather second, scenery and traffic third.

Buit first see if P3D works flawless on your system.

Herr-Berbunch 01-09-13 09:14 AM

I use REX, do you know how Active Sky compares? :hmmm:

reignofdeath 01-09-13 09:30 AM

Okay so I just had an awesome experience.


Decided I wanted to fly in crappy weather so I flew from KLAX to KNTD (I think, it is actually Point Mugu, California) in fogged in weather. Wow, quite a pea soup at ground level. Quite interesting to take off in and fly above. And then I got to Pt Mugu, they directed me inland and to descend. . . riiiiight into a mountain. :hmmm:

That was more my fault though, I had it on autopilot to descend and hold 2,400 and should have known better but started messing with my GPS.:oops:

But they talked about the localizers and holding onto them. I know what they are from a quick google search, but how do I really use them with the ILS? Better yet, can either of you give me a quick run down on using ILS to land?? Usually I just use my GPS and look at the instrument feathers for the runways and try to get as close as possible to center.

The way they made it sound though, it seems like you should be able to use it with something in the cockpit??:06:


And I looked in the FSX learning center and found nothing on the ILS and how to use it to land. :O:

Skybird 01-09-13 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch (Post 1990227)
I use REX, do you know how Active Sky compares? :hmmm:

REX for the main replaces textures, AS translates downloaded METARs into a weather environment in FSX. It does so in a way that I like more than in REX 2.0, which has a more rudimentary function on this. I bought AS evolution since it was a cheaper offer, but I would buy AS again and together with the new REX version, even for normal price. Of REX, I only use the texture randomizer, I think most users do not use any of its other functions.

ASE gets started before you start FSX. It then runs unobstruzsive in the background. By habit I then switch on default option to download weather in FSX every 15 minutes, but that possibly would not be needed, with ASE overwriting it anyway.

ASE creates more complex weather scenarios and more weather layers than FSX. REX+ASE imo is a must have combo like TrackIR or a realistic airplane addon.

---

For Flightplanning, I use FlightSim Commander 9.2. It alows online flyers to have their tracks saved and threedimensionally displayed in Goodle Earth.

Interesting for Casey, maybe: global scenery in FSX is altered in three ways: manipuilating the mesh, the te3xtures or the ölandclass. Mesh is the wireframe of the Earth surface, textures repalces the patterns by which it's locations are "painted", landclass is the structure in which these texture tiles are arranged to meet the layout of towns, streets, rivers, coastlines, woods, etc. The mesh can be improved by decreasing the distance between the nodes. This makes the modelling of the 3D surface smoother and more detailed. The title to look out for would be "FS Global". A general texture replacement would be "Ground Environment", available per continent. A general improvement of continental landclass would be "Ultimate Terrain". Of all these three, "Ultimate Terrain" easily - depending on settings - becomes the most hurting to frames, and I use it no more (but did in FS9 on my old rig with no problem). Decent hardware probably has no big issue with the other two. Ultimate Terrain is said to have quite a problem-rising potential for quite some users. I would not use it or the other two until you have some really strong hardware. An d even then it can cause troubles. That'S why it never became as popular again for FSX as it has been with FS9, where it was considered to be a must have. When it works, and in combination with Ground Environment, it however looks spectacular, especially the night light effects.

For high altitude flying, none of these addons is of big interest, however. I save the frames, therefore. Weather improving addons and airports sceneries are of more noticable value for IFR flyers.

These addons are no local sceneries, but have global effects on the FSX default scenery.

Skybird 01-09-13 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith (Post 1990231)
Okay so I just had an awesome experience.


Decided I wanted to fly in crappy weather so I flew from KLAX to KNTD (I think, it is actually Point Mugu, California) in fogged in weather. Wow, quite a pea soup at ground level. Quite interesting to take off in and fly above. And then I got to Pt Mugu, they directed me inland and to descend. . . riiiiight into a mountain. :hmmm:

That was more my fault though, I had it on autopilot to descend and hold 2,400 and should have known better but started messing with my GPS.:oops:

But they talked about the localizers and holding onto them. I know what they are from a quick google search, but how do I really use them with the ILS? Better yet, can either of you give me a quick run down on using ILS to land?? Usually I just use my GPS and look at the instrument feathers for the runways and try to get as close as possible to center.

The way they made it sound though, it seems like you should be able to use it with something in the cockpit??:06:


And I looked in the FSX learning center and found nothing on the ILS and how to use it to land. :O:

First: the radio and traffic control are really - messy in FSX. They can get you killed if you trust them blindly in a region with mountains. I fly a lot in the Alpes, so take my word for it. It's an AI - never forget that. However, when manually demanding a descend for lower flight level over mountains while dropping an IFR, they usually will reject any altitude you demand that puts you in reach of the mountain peaks. I do many approaches to Zurich, and often they call me for approaching from the SE to the NW. There are high mountain in the descent path.

The AP itself does not check for obstacles in your flightpath. If you tell it to descend and there is a mountain in the way, then the AP will get you diving right into it.

The only way is what the real guys do in real life, too: check a printed map before takeoff. Form a mental image of the destination's vicinity and what it looks like in elevations. Do not trust AP or TraCon blindly.

Some addon planes have a functional terrain radar. That'S nice. Others have a functional digital terrain map on their glass displays. You have the map option in the FSX menus. Adn then there are final approach charts, often by Jeppesen.

ILS approach: in brief. Tune in ILS frequency to NAV1 radio, and make it the active frequency. On your HSI tune in the precise (!) landing course of the runway. Then fly by the needles exclusively. If you want a full autoland, bring plane to intercept course for the landing course, and make sure it gets intercepted before you intercept the glideslope. Then hit the APR (Approach) button on the AP.

If it is an airliner, it might be different with the default ones, but I do not remember the default airliners, so keep that in mind. You usually have CMD-A activated, and do final approach via HDG mode. When ILS data has been entered, you set HDG course for loaliser intercept, hit the LOC button and LOC gets armed. The plane intercepts, and lines up with the runway, LOC message no longer armed but active. Once LOC has been intercepted you wait until you get signal for Glideslope being received (marker shows up), it should be ABOVE you (always intercept glideslope from below, never from above!), you are then ready to engage the APP mode and add the second autopilot for better redundancy (you cannot engage both autopilots outside the approach phase of the flight). Once the plane has intercepted the GS, it will start to sink to stay on the glideslope, and the APP mode changes from armed to active. You then only handle flaps and speed and gear yourself, also manually arm spoiler and chose an autobrake setting, the latter and flaps are choosen according to the tables (that you do not have :O: ) - landing the plane does all by itself. Normally, autopilots get disengaged however, somewhere after sinking below decision height and beginning of flare. Autobrakes will be engaged by themselves if you armed them, but I'm not sure right now about the reversers. Switch off reverser when having reached 70 knots or so.

Switch off autopilot, flight director and or autothrottle once you are on the ground. I do not remember which of these the default airliners have. You will have problems taxiing when you leave them on. :D

If you use the GPS, as I know it from my addons the AP must be told - via a switch - that it should use the GPS as signal source, not the radio. Don't know how that is with default airplanes. Look for a switch on the panel reading something like "NAV/GPS". In airliners in FSX that by default have no functional FMC I think , it might be different - check the learning centre, I know that ILS and GPS get explained in there.

Localiser refers to the lateral orientation of the plane. The vertical orientation is called the Glideslope. For security reasons it is standard procedure that the localiser must be intercepted BEFORE you intercept the glideslope. If you are on glideslope before properly aligned to the runway, you may go into a descend while still doing heavy manouverings, and slam into the ground beside the runway. So: localiser first, glideslope second.

A proper FMC will take care of that by itself usually.


FSX -> Learning Centre -> Flight Planner
FSX -> Learning Centre -> Navigation -> several of the according sub chapters
FSX -> Learning Centre -> Autopilot


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.