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-   -   Time for an abortion topic? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=199832)

Onkel Neal 12-19-12 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybermat47 (Post 1978547)
Even if the person knowingly conceived the child, is over 20, and really, really wants to bring another life into the world? :hmmm:

In my opinion, abortions should only be considered if the child is going to have some deformity like Elaphantitis, or before the child's brain is developed enough to be considered alive.
I was not serious.

Cybermat47 12-19-12 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1978553)
I was not serious.
DAMN MY STUPIDITY

Platapus 12-19-12 07:06 PM
Abortion should be legal from birth until 17 years old. You get some teenager snotting off to you? Abort and start over. I think you would have a generation of very polite teenagers. :yep:

Platapus 12-19-12 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin (Post 1960725)
Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.
Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Does that mean I have to jerk him off too?

With respects to the late Rodney Dangerfield. :salute:

em2nought 12-19-12 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapus (Post 1979374)
Abortion should be legal from birth until 17 years old. You get some teenager snotting off to you? Abort and start over. I think you would have a generation of very polite teenagers. :yep:

This sounds outdated, until 25 years old might be more appropriate now. :D

Jimbuna 12-19-12 07:31 PM
Eesh! :o

Sailor Steve 12-19-12 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybermat47 (Post 1978547)
In my opinion, abortions should only be considered if the child is going to have some deformity like Elaphantitis, or before the child's brain is developed enough to be considered alive.
And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.

Armistead 12-19-12 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979397)
And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.

Agreed! If men are against abortion then they should consider castration or at least get fixed...

CaptainMattJ. 12-19-12 10:20 PM
within acceptable tolerances, absolutely the choice of the woman in question. Not some old ultra-conservative in washington, not the church, the woman's choice.

The only issue i see relavent is WHEN you should still be able to abort. 15-20 weeks is when the baby develops brain function, neural pathways, multiple internal organs, ect. Where's the cutoff point? What time is a fetus considered a human being?

I don't know. i'd say that by week 20 the fetus is pretty developed and shows signs of human behavior. It's also month 5, which takes some SERIOUS obliviousness to ignore the signs, though technically by week 12 you should've noticed that you aren't having any periods and possibly signs of pregnancy.

Stealhead 12-19-12 10:42 PM
If you where meant to be here you will be if you where not you wont be that is the way I look at.

If god or what ever the creator is in a persons mind is so powerful then he/it/they if they had some being of importance
they would make that person exist.

Some people say put the kid up for adoption and many people are adopted but not all have a better life this way some adoptive parents
are horrible and have even killed the children they adopt or neglected them.

Signs of pregnancy vary from woman to woman and women have been pregnant and not known it until birth and not because they where half wits either.

Cybermat47 12-19-12 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979397)
The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.
You have a point.

Onkel Neal 12-20-12 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979397)
And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.
What about the father?

magic452 12-20-12 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1979478)
What about the father?
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic

Tribesman 12-20-12 02:22 AM
Quote:
What about the father?
What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job

TarJak 12-20-12 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 1979493)
What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job
I think the father in this case may have a say in it:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2...or-experts.jpg

Sailor Steve 12-20-12 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens (Post 1979478)
What about the father?
He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic452 (Post 1979486)
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.
Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.

AVGWarhawk 12-20-12 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic452 (Post 1979486)
When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic
That about sums up the father end of it. :up:

Armistead 12-20-12 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1979832)
He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.


Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.

Honestly, I think the abortion question is settled in our country for good.
I don't see our nation getting more religious.

Platapus 12-20-12 02:13 PM
Steve,

The issue is that while the man has little choice, often the man is obligated based on the decision of the mother.

If the mother decides to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not.

If the mother decides not to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not, the father still has to pay.

Women has the authority to make a decision and the man has no authority, even though the decision affects the man.

While I completely support the decision being based on the mother (her body), the law needs to recognize that this decision affects more than the mother/baby.

But then our laws have been biased in favour of women at the expense of men for quite a while.

Sailor Steve 12-20-12 04:56 PM
Platapus, I know all that, and I agree with you, but as I said, that is actually a different issue. It has nothing to do with the question of whether a woman should be "allowed" to have an abortion. If women are prevented to have the procedure at all, the the question of the man's involvement or rights ceases to exist. If women can have one, then and only then do all the other issues come into play.


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