Do not let the dirt bags get you down so much 19Herr_Rapp86 believe it or not they have always been around every generation has them which just proves that when push comes to shove the people that are worth a damn do answer the call.

So what if some moron is proud of having been in prison? That just shows you that he is a piece of (not allowed on this forum) same for the people that are proud of not having a job.Maybe they seem like the majority but they are not in my experience most people I have met show a lot of respect for good values a lot of people do care about what happens in this country.I hear plenty of people talk about the cuts to NASA.I see a lot of young kids wanting to join the military.

I agree with admiring the deeds of previous generations but everyone looks at the WWII generation with rose tinted glasses they did great things but they had their fair share of problems look at how blacks where treated they fought for a country where they where really second class citizens Tuskegee Airmen officers in the US Army where not allowed to set one foot into any Officers Club and they did not have a segregated one to go to.

People ignore more or less the guys that fought in Korea and even more Vietnam we call WWII fighters the bravest yet men that fought in Vietnam spent nearly 180 day per year in combat compared to the average of 10 days per year I call the person that spent 180 days in combat damn brave if he was lucky enough to survive.


As a Marine you must not have hung out with too many of your fellow Marines(or you socialized with Marines having the same tastes surely you saw others in the barracks though) I take it my brother is a Marine Captain and some guys in his unit dress off duty in the manner that you dislike (short of the pants to knees) you cant always judge a book by its cover.In my experience in the USAF it was the same way some guys did their own thing off duty maybe they did not dress the way I dressed it did not make them bad people a man could wear a sharp 3 piece suit and still be a complete turd.

How very true. Even crap looks good in a pretty wrapper. Lol. I admire those Vietnam and Korea guys. A lot. They didn't have the cheering crowds to come home to like WWII. They got the "baby-killer" remarks and spit on. And you're right. I hung out with the guys just like me. Don't get me wrong. I know there are plenty of great people out there. And they outweigh the bad ones. By exponential proportions. What we need is a leader, though. All the guys I talk to that are like me, that think like me, and all the other American's like us out there, all say the same thing. We're ready to unite toward a common goal again. We're ready to go to Mars, or cure cancer, or go on a manufacturing spree. Something. We need a leader though. Someone in a position of power (President, Congress, somebody) to give us the means to do so instead of all these mandates and restrictions. We're choking our selves to death here with the people we put in office. We, as in the working class, can't make lemonade out of grape nuts.

I think those numbers are probably skewed by the many more people involved in supporting WW2s maximum war effort compared to that in the limited wars of Korea and Vietnam. Of course combat arms troops like armor and infantry spent far more time in combat in WW2 than just 10 days a year and their tours were mostly "for the duration" instead of just 12 months.

Also I read somewhere awhile back that the mortality rate in WW2 was 1 in 15, just like it had been in all our wars since the Revolution, whereas during Korea and Vietnam, and every war since, it was about 1 in 1500 due to advances in battlefield medicine and the helicopter evac.

This is not to disrespect the bravery of Korea and Vietnam vets. They fought their wars with the same amount of courage and skill that our soldiers and sailors have always displayed and continue to do so to this day.

Personally I'm content to let the WW2 vets have their accolades. They'll be all gone soon enough and it will be the Korea and Vietnam vets turn to be feted.

America not perfect but i still got freedom there alot of places that dont and i wouldnt move to them but here a quote from a John Wayne movie basic tells how i feel.

Republic. I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose. Some words give you a feeling. Republic is one of those words that makes me tight in the throat - the same tightness a man gets when his baby takes his first step or his first baby shaves and makes his first sound as a man. Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm. Republic is one of those words.

America is not the greatest, but I think it's pretty darn good. I remember when I first saw that clip that the OP posted. I agree with the sentiment, but I also think that there's also a lot of great things about this country.

But then again, the idea of "American exceptionalism" is completely juvenile and ignorant.

That brings up the question: Which country is the greatest? And by what standard? No matter how you judge it you're going to get different answers, and every one of them will be biased. Fifty years ago it could be argued that America led the world in standard of living and education. Today there are other countries that have higher scores in both. This doesn't mean that America has gotten worse. In some respects we have, but again it depends on how you measure it.

I'm considered poor by some standards, yet I have amenities and opportunities that my grandfather couldn't even imagine. I still can't afford a car, but I regularly communicate with people all over the world instantly by simply typing on my personal computer. I can talk to people all over the world with my computer, and it doesn't cost me any extra. I don't eat steak for dinner every night, but I'm not exactly starving. My apartment has built in heating and cooling systems that would be the envy of the most famous kings and emperors.

Yes, there are parts of America where things could be better. There are also a lot of jobs advertised every day that go unfilled because people don't want to work at them. Overall I'd say we have it pretty good.

As you pointed out in your post, that would depend on the answer to two questions

1. What is the definition of "great"?
2. How can one measure the applicability to this definition?

My opinion: The United States can never be the greatest country in the world because we are a country with a history of extremes.

We have done some wonderful things and some terrible things
We have shown mercy and cruelty
We have shown inclusiveness and exclusivity
We have shown tolerance and intolerance

The list could go on for a while. Accepting the US is accepting our extremism history. All I can say is that I like living in the US. Despite the good, the bad, and the ugly, the US is still a pretty nice place to live.

I guess what I am saying is that I feel that the US is the greatest country for me. :up:

Oh, I love my country. I love the part of it I live in right now. I've see other parts I wouldn't mind living in, and I'm aware of other countries I wouldn't mind living in. I just don't accept the whole mindset of "Mine's the best."

Most every nation can say the same thing if you sit and think about well some lean more towards the terrible end than others. Nations are made up of people and people are flawed therefore any nation is going to have flaws to some extent.

Does a nation collectively learn from its mistakes or not is a more important measurement of course one must consider the fact that again any nation is filled with people who are flawed which means that a similar right or wrong might occur.

No monologue about America can hope to touch Peter Finch's in Network:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

We are so far behind in education and social growth, so there is lots of area where we have so many chances to improve and to be great.