I especially like demand 11. Yeah, we've all seen fight club...:har:

Yes, in absolute terms.

But I should also point out that this is "not an official list" and even that doesn't really represent the OWS mainstream, as noted by the article itself.

Then define for me, if you would please, what in your opinion is hard left leaning.

Those demands are ludicrous! While I like the theme of a return to non-Reaganomics with safeguards against financial abuses, these are stupid.

(qualified my post above - I realize it's rude to post one-word remarks like this, sorry)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_economics

Right away, even that set of demands fails point #1 of socialist economic theory - namely the track towards abolition of free market and profit, to be replaced with generating use value. That's the polar opposite of what those demands are, in the end, suggesting. The underlying subtext to all of them is to generate markets, on 'new terms that would make them more free and sustainable', whatever that means. That's hardly extreme socialism.

There's also a bunch of idealist environmental stuff and weird economic proposals. It's also a poorly-written document and sabotages itself by not really knowing its market-oriented premise, but more coherent than the TP call-to-action.

And by the way, let's not skirt the topic here.

I'm not really a fan of the OWS people either. I completely agree that the movement is confused, and has done a pretty good job of sabotaging itself through a confused agenda and not actually thinking through what they really want, or what getting their way might even mean. There are a lot of splinter groups within it muddying the waters, and there's a lot of ideological trash floating around in it.

But none of that changes the fact that the TP "resolution" is an incredulous pile of crap, and that their call for economic terrorism shows that at least some of these people are, to put it mildly, pretty darn crazy.

Its truly against all that USA represents.
I believe that capitalism has overgrown it self and needs a little corrective kick in a butt but this document is just idealistic loony tune.

It's also pretty funny that the very start of the page says...

Yup, a representative OWS position right there - someone's obviously read that very clearly :roll:

If you're interested in more considered, organizationally-backed proposals associated with (though not directly produced by) the 'Occupiers', here's one list that's been published and circulated among protesters here in Canada: http://dwatch.ca/camp/RelsOct1211.html
That's about the closest you get to an 'official demands' list from them.

That's some hardline Leninism there, eh?

I don't think anyone can get a representative OWS position, given that they themselves don't know what they want.

They shut down the National Air and Space museum here with their antics. Can someone please tell me what the hell that has to do with corporate greed or wealth inequality?

To tell the truth it looks like a bunch of radicals mixed with some naive shmocks.
The growing stupid polarisation in USA just fuels this stuff.

You got tea party and this....bunch of idiots.

that list is the funniest thing ive read all day.

"equal rights amendments for all 'Minorities'" So called "minorities" are getting extra special treatment and being placed in jobs that they are less qualified in than another candidate whos one of those "pasty white guys".

"open border immigration" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This guy must be mentally brain damaged. We already have high unemployment. If we allow more people to come in, and work for whatever they can, it would copmletely lower the average wage, averge pay, and obliterate the job market entirely. Its beyond me how anyone could think its the "right thing" to do. Why? Cause we hate minorities? Psh. Get out of your ultra liberal bubble and get real.

"a TRILLION dollars in eco spending AND disabling all nuke plants." Nuclear power is the single most viable option of cleaner power we have seen yet. Theres only so many hydroelectric, wind and solar plants we can build that simply cant keep up with nuclear power (hydroelectric palnts being the second most viable). seriously? who is this moron.

"raise the minimum wage to 20 dollars an hour". do i really have to explain how this will never work in todays debt-ridden "economy"
"guaranteed living wages regardless of unemployment". Cant possibly afford it. not in a million years. Dream on, moron. That, and the fact that more people have the option to simply just live off the system without lifting a FINGER, just lets leeches suck us dry.

"free college education" No. what we do need however, is more programs to help Citizens (not anchor-babies or illegals, or sports players) afford college and living expenses without taking out nearly 100 grand in loans (which a growing number of people arent paying back) to pay for even a simple 4 year bachelor.

"immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all (and immediate banning of all crediting reporting agenicies)" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Why should people in debt just be totally forgiven for the debt that they put themselves into? moron. credit is based on what youve done in the past. if you didnt pay off multiple bills, then why should you be trusted to pay off another. There are agencies which unfairly judge credit, obviously, but Debt is there for a reason, and must be payed off.

Even if they were desperate, or needed loans for college, this is real life, and you shouldnt be able to escape debt unfairly. Regardless of why. we need to revamp the living costs, and control it based on the average cost of living. Everything has gone up in price except the workers wage, and thats rediculous. People put themselves into debt and shouldnt be able to "get out of jail free". But if they cant pay it off, then its cash that goes down the drain regardless. We need to allow people to be able to afford payments into debt, and let people live a decent life off of the hard work they put in, not paycheck to paycheck with nothing to spare.

He has about 3 or 4 things that still dont work but arent too far from the right thing. minimum wage needs to be increased in a realistic sense in according to living wages, There needs to be a multitude more fair, and highly regulated government insurance companies rather than the completely dominant outrageous private insurance companies today.


Capitalism and the rise of corrupt private sector business has failed the average taxpaying, hard working citizen. Food companies that literally completely dominate the market are absolutely degrading quality and raising health risks while increasing prices. insurance companies, knowing that they are the only ones to turn to, are setting their rates at ridiculous heights and increasing monthly charges disproportionately when the insurance company's services are ACTUALLY used. More and more businesses are hiring illegals to work for a lower wage and firing others simply to make more money. The fourteenth amendment has been beyond abused when pregnant families come across the border to have a baby and automatically get a free pass to live here.


And people wonder why we falter with this free market greedy capitalist nonsense...

Put the bums and homeless into shelters, put the insane into asylums, and arrest and put the druggies and criminals in jail. Then the rest of us can get back to work, taking care of our responsibilities, and raising our families without worthless distractions. :)

Drug addicts in jail. That'll fix 'em.

Bottom line here is the average Americans standard of living has to fall in order for the rest of the worlds standard of living to rise. That is what a world economy is all about.

It's a waste of the time protesting the loss of something that won't come back, we should be thinking about what we can do to better ourselves in the future.

Protip: If you live in America, YOU ARE THE 1%. This is the funniest part of the OWS protests.

What about American health care?
Maybe im ignorant but here it is regarded as one of the most technologically advanced but inflated and ineffective systems in the world.

I think that its government responsibility to give equal access to medical care no matter how wealthy citizen is.
Even if its at expense of few dollars in taxes.

Part of the reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is that we have no limits on medical malpractice. It's also incredibly expensive and time consuming to become a doctor in the US.

The healthcare system in America is just plain broken. Here we have a system where drug development is directly subsidized by the taxpayer, then the drug companies charge outrageous prices to quote "recoup the incredible expense of R&D," which in most cases they didn't even pay for. We have an over-reaching, slow, inefficient bureaucracy in the FDA that makes it near impossible for small drug players to enter the game. And we have no limits on ambulance chasing lawyers that get outrageous settlements for people who have barely been injured or not injured at all by malpractice.

It makes no sense to put American taxpayer dollars into a fundamentally flawed system without reforming it in the first place.

It's all about energy, to get this economy turned around, if we don't address this problem, prices will keep skyrocketing, the price of fuel is what drives the prices in the stores, our economy is based on a 35 dollar a barrel of oil. It wouldn't hurt to clean up washington either.

Only way to get oil back down to $35 a barrel is to massively increase the supply or nuke China...

I think this post summarizes the real problems here better than anyone could :up:

And people really need to realize that the real problems with world economy, justice and bad governance start not with "1%" or "the socialists", but with themselves. Both right-wing libertarians and the the Occupying pseudo-socialists really have a pretty deluded view of how the world works. Both are irresponsible. But of course that doesn't look very good on banners, slogans and trashy pamphlets, so someone else is always gotta be the bad guy sabotaging America.