I was talking to an F-105 pilot who told me that you could get the guidance confused (if you couldn't turn into it) by pitching up and down (can't remember specific G forces required) and as the missile tried to follow, the size of the missile's parabola kept increasing until it either ran out of fuel, hit the ground, or simply quit tracking.

I shall do further investigation to verify...

*I HAVE DIAGRAM* - editing to fit purpose...

PS: In the Wings Over series by Thirdwire, I can always defeat an AIM-9 or AA-2 Atoll with a sharp inside loop

:up:

That took some balls!

Or the Dam Busters...

Or those brave bomber crews that just refused to give up the ship and made it back to England on a wing (or lack thereof) and a prayer (or hundreds)

Thanks for the info. I had no idea they could do this.

I thought it was the SA-6 'GAINFUL' that the IDF had so much trouble with in '72? Like in the beginning of The Sum of All Fears.

SA-3 was as old as the SA-2 at that time.

:hmmm:

The SA-6 was the major killer in the Yom Kippur War (Which was in 1973, BTW). It caught the IAF completely by surprise and led to a large amount of losses.

EDIT: Nevermind about my estimates, I was thinking of something completely different. Gah, that's the second time that happened today. In either case, it was by far the most effective Arab SAM system in the war.

:yep:

I actually watched that for the first time last night - I'm sorry I couldn't recall what they used though! :03:

Thought it mostly a good film.

Yes it was a good film, although I didn't like that they swapped the Arab terrorists from the novel for Neo-Nazis and the chopper crash was totally wrong (at least the director admitted it in the commentary).

If it got to close it might blow the Tail off the B-24 :o .:oops:

I don't think the Tail Gunner or Pilot would be to happy. :-?

If you can draw your enemy in to a turning fight you can also prevent him from firing it in the first place, at more than 4 Gs or so the older Fox 2s can't track at all even if he is matching your turn while on your tail.

At least that was always my experience in Wings over Europe.

The Wings Over Vietnam sim? That is a poor example way too easy physics in that game(although I do like that game or the mod for it).I am basing this on a friend who is an intel officer in the USAF part of his job is to know the capabilities of all threats to our aircraft including SAM systems obviously the basic rule has not changed for a radar guided SAM the pilot must fly along the "beam" of the missile track and this depends on the flight pattern the missile is showing when gets the MK1 eyeball on it.He may need to bank hard into the beam or bank into and down towards the beam depending on the situation agnist more modern system the pilot may also need to barrel roll and then "counter the beam" the role is an attempt to confuse the missile the USAF actually has examples of every SAM radar system in use so they know them in and out.

The pilot you talked to sounds like he was a Wild Weasel pilot he probably flew an F-105F or G(though he first likely learned in the D model fighter/ bomber) the pattern you mention would make sense as that would be attractive to a SAM battery in reality he is reusing them into firing so that another WW 105 can acquire the radar and kill the SAM batteries radar after which the SAM is just a giant telephone pole.

Have you ever played Falcon 4.0? That game has fairly realistic physics and AI including SAM guidance and evasion.I imagine DCS A-10 does as well as in DCS Black Shark the missiles seemed pretty hard to evade and they where believable in LOCK ON Flaming Cliffs which the DCS games use the same engine more or less.

TLAM I have done exactly what you mention in WOE once in an A-10 I had 4 MiG-21s on me so I just got very low (which causes ground clutter) and kept turning they fired missile after missile and none came even close.

Wasn't using WoV as an example - just making that statement.

The F-105 pilot was a real person lol

commentary track: Hi, I'm so and so, the director.
TC: Hi, I'm Tom Clancy. I'm the guy whose book they didn't read.

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who listens to those things! :haha:

(Not the first time its happened with his books :( )

I did not say that he was not a real person(read second paragraph) I said that based on what you say he told you it sounds like he was a Wild Weasel F-105f or G pilot.How those guys flew an F-105 and how the guys that flew the "dump truck" bomber F-105Ds is very different.And the only game Vietnam related by Thirdwire is Wings Over Vietnam they make all the Wings Over sims.Most of the first and second paragraphs are referring to "real world" the rest is referring to sims.