what about one of those semi auto saiga 12 gauge AK shotguns? you can't get any more reliable than an ak action.

Well that's the difference, of being a citizen or being a subject . A subject is just subjected to stupid sh_t and the wims of their leaders, as a american I believe god created man and Samuel Colt made us equal. You can either defend yourself or be preyed upon, by criminals or your leaders. I prefer the Ithaca model 37 feather light 12, put a slug through a deers heart at 90 yards and it was tastey.

My neighbor who is a Nam vet is selling me his Siaga 12 for $600

He helped me build my AK-74 so we had allot of Kalishnikov conversations and he wants it to go to somebody who will appreciate it.

:rock:

Urban survival suggests something a little different than home defense.

August, I'll take one of those too and I've got your back. :yep:

Any Ar-15 variant will do fine just get yourself some heavier rounds like the Black Hills 77 grain I read in a book interviewing US Army and Marine snipers and they said that they loved the .77 grain rounds so much that they where using heavy barreled as well as standard rack barreled M-4/16s and getting one hit kills out to 700 meters with an ACOG.

One guy talked to the head doctor at a near by medical unit who had examined an insurgent body the guy had taken a hit form the green tip 62 grain 5.56 round and of course it went right through him doing little to stop him then the sniper popped him with an M-4 loaded with 77 grain rounds one shot.The doc said nice kill with your M24(7.62x51mm in this snipers case) the sniper told the doc that it was a 77 grain 5.56 rond fired from a regular M-4.Impressive I'd say for an experienced surgeon to mistake the wound to have been caused by a much larger round.

In other words have a good weapon train yourself in its use and load it with rounds that are effective.If you are talking survival you are going to need a long gun an assault rifle a shot gun and a pistola.Shot guns are good but they are a liability out side there range what if the other guy has a rifle and is over 40 yards away?

I want one of these. Automatic shotgun that fires 12 gauge anything, 20 round barrel mag, and even has grenade rounds accurate to 175m.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/306062...matic_shotgun/

You need to remember that survival will mainly hinge on avoiding fights. Engaging opponents at range is not conducive to that goal. Better to stay under cover and blow their heads off if they come too close.

Rules of engagement with a shot gun, slugs are accurate up to a 100yards, anything within 35 yards start with the oo buck, 4s, bbs, and the flechettes nails with tails, you all thought I was crazy too find out that you can pack 25 of those little buggers into a shot shell. As a kid I went to turkey shoots with my dad and we fired shotguns with slugs at targets at 65 yards away with a 2inch bulls eye, closest to the bull wins I could cut black at rest with iron sights, my best day at the age of 16 was 2 turkeys, out of 22 shooters. Up till a couple of years ago shotguns and slugs were the only thing you could deer hunt with, where I'm from, and I got my fare share.

Just picked up an 870 today. :yeah:

QFT!!

Ours is a sawed-off, to shortest legal length, 16 gauge pump. The whole family is proficient with it and knows where it is stored. Ammo is getting to be a problem now, though. Getting hard to find.

When the kids are all out, I'll probably switch to a 12 gauge.

Iirc, this is still the law in Iowa. Michigan too, south of Grand Rapids.

I agree with you here but sometimes a fight can not be avoided this is the type of situation I am thinking of and that unavoidable fight might be outside the effective range of a shotgun I am not talking about going all 75th Rangers here.A shotgun is great if you are inside a building like waiting in ambush on a flight of stairs but in the open (if you get stuck in that situation) not so much.

The problem with that theory is you simply cannot prepare for all the kinds of situations you might encounter and still remain mobile.

Yes a shotgun is not good for range but if you go with your hunting rifle you give up the close in firepower a shotgun would provide. Go with an assault weapon and the ammo becomes more difficult to obtain. The AW is also not as suitable for hunting as either of the first two.

It's all about choices and compromises and imo the best all around weapon for most people would be the trusty shotgun.

Who exactly are the people with "ballistic protection" that you would shoot at? I can think of only one group - the police. :o

Not every ballistic vest is worn by a cop.

Ballistic vests are available to the civilian population at large in the states. Any numbnut on the street that can afford one (through legal or illegal means) can get one. Drug dealers, bank robbers, etc are often equipped with such gear. If your in a situation where your talking "urban survival", then the authority structure has either broken down completely (meaning no governmental agency, police - etc are coming to help you) or Big Brother has turned on its citizenry. Sure, police may have them, but so can the people from across town (or across the street) that think you have food in your cellar while they starve.

Sure, a good headshot makes body armor irrelevant, but in tight quarters that's a skill you would be best off not having to rely on to win. To win you have to survive and make sure the other guy doesn't. Counting on a head shot every time isn't the way to go when the opponent is that close.

Your have your opinion I have mine personally I feel that a shot gun is to much of a liability you have no choice but to allow any threat to get close to you to insure that you can engage them which means that you have to be hidden you are assuming that everything is going to go your way and you will see a threat before he sees you which cant all ways be the case.

Also I have the preparation way of thinking I have plenty of what I need on my land I live in a rural area on acreage.It much wiser in my case to have plenty of ammo for more than one type of weapon.I will say that if you are going to pick only one fire arm to rely on in a survival situation select an AK47 reliable weapon easy to use handles conditions well can kill from range ammo is very common(must be thousands of AKs and SKSs in the US therefore plenty of 7.62x39mm) better engagement ability as well 30 rounds per reloading vs. 5,6 or 8 in a shotgun.

You can say a shotgun is better until your blue in the face you are not going to change my mind.:salute: Kind of like you take the high road I'll take the low road.

I don't care what you do. Note the thread title, read the op.

Oh and as far as picking an AK-47, then my AR-15 owns you from 300-400 meters away. My Remington Model 700 bolt action owns you from 300 out to 1000. Every weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Get a rifle/shotgun combo!


http://images.ableammo.com/catalog/i...9/sm/14175.jpg



:yeah:

you know what they say!

Smaller the gun, the bigger the....ehh you get the point

http://mimg.ugo.com/201006/47719/cut...et_480x360.jpg

Call me old school, but...
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/doglock1.jpg