SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Happy Independence day!

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)

- - Happy Independence day! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=185145)

Wow!
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Platapus. :up: Yup, I read it all. That's what I love subsim for: again I will go more educated into bed than I woke up (not smarter ;))

What I would like to add that maybe the second sentence of the declaration is the more important one in regarding people's natural rights, in my opinion the first sentence is one of the most beautiful ever written in the English language:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Happy 4th of July from your former masters:woot:

Happy the 4th USA :woot:

HunterICX

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa_smurf (Post 1697385)

Happy 4th of July from your former masters:woot:

Yep :woot:

Happy 4th of July and thanks to Platapus, very interesting reading :salute:

Have a happy and SAFE 4th of July!

And a Happy Independence Day to all my fellow Americans!

Signer for Maryland, Charles Carroll of Carrolton (for whom several states have named counties and/or schools) was the last signer to die, at the age of 95.

Working tonight at USS Constellation on the Inner Harbor - hope everyone has a safe, fun Fourth!

happy birthday USA:woot:

Some additional almost interesting trivia: There were state versions of the DoI also. Copies of the Dunlap Broadsides were given to the individual states and different versions were printed by the local news papers. Including one version in German for a Penn. news paper. This making this the first foreign language publication of our DoI.

Trivia question: Which country was the first to recognize the United States as an independent country and how did they recognize us? :hmmm:

Hint: Barbara Tuchman wrote about it in 1988. :know:

Saint Eustaiuse by exchanging a gun salute ??

Quote:

In 1778, Lord Stormont claimed in Parliament that, "if Sint Eustatius had sunk into the sea three years before, the United Kingdom would already have dealt with George Washington"

interesting stuff :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov (Post 1697610)

Saint Eustaiuse by exchanging a gun salute ??

A weiner! :yeah::salute:

Barbara Tuchman wrote "The First Salute".

Quote:

“The First Salute” refers to the events of 16 November 1776, when the governor of Saint Eustatius, Johannes de Graaff, returned the salute of the visiting American ship Andrew Doria—the first time a great power acknowledged an American vessel at sea, thereby tacitly recognizing American independence. The British were enraged at this perceived betrayal by the Dutch, and the further deterioration of relations eventually led to the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War (1780-1784), which fully exposed the appalling weakness of the Dutch Republic.

http://www.thesatirist.com/books/TheFirstSalute.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus (Post 1696775)

The declaration of Independence was first signed on the 4th. However, congress voted for independence on 2 July.

Actually the Declaration wasn't signed until August 2.

Quote:

Why is Independence Day celebrated on the 4th? Probably for the same reasons Christmas is celebrated on a day that Jesus was not born. :D

It's celebrated on the 4th because that's the date of the final resolution acceptance vote, as noted in the preamble to the published document.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve (Post 1698271)

Actually the Declaration wasn't signed until August 2.

It's celebrated on the 4th because that's the date of the final resolution acceptance vote, as noted in the preamble to the published document.

I am afraid you are wrong on both counts.

The Fair Copy was "signed" by John Handcock after all the changes were made. However this signing was only a procedural signing as in accepting it as President of the Congress. His "signing" indicated that this marked up version was the final version and that it had been approved by congress. This was a standard procedure. Members of congress did not sign every single resolution that was approved. Only the President of Congress signed as a way of formalizing the acceptance.

Since the Fair Copy has been destroyed, we don't know if Hancock formally signed it, initialed it, or maybe put a check mark and a smiley face on it. :D The term "signed" does not always mean an actual signature. It can mean that it was formally accepted. Most likely he signed it.

The Dunlop Broadsides listed Hancock's name and the phrase "Signed by order and on behalf of the Congress" That document was made on the evening of 4 July. But since it was a document in type there was no actual signature.

Etymologists could debate whether this version was the first signed copy or not. :)

The actual signed copy of the DoI was not made until 19 July 1776. This was the Engrossed copy and the one version that would, eventually over the next five years, be signed by members of congress. John Hancock was the first to sign it on 19 July 1776. This is the version of the DoI that has the actual signatures. It is very likely that someone signed the Engrossed copy of the DoI on 2 Aug. But the signing of the DoI took place between 1776 and 1781.

The voting for the Lee Resolution was completed on 2 July 1776 not on the 4th. The 4th was when congress voted on the final version of the DoI. Two separate events. The DoI is not a resolution.

I know, picking of nits, but that period of history is of great interest to me.

Crap I'm late! :cry:

Sorry, we had a huge storm this 4th of July and my power was knocked out.

Sooooo Happy 5th of July? :DL

I got my fix of fireworks.:woot::woot: Sadly, I had to work yesterday.