Oh, I disagree. Sharing war stories is always fun, and now we have a whole thread that's practically devoted to them. Besides, I could write what I know of your service on the back of my hand.

My experience with combat engineers extends to the point where I recall certain Marine combat engineers collapsing the roof what was generously termed a "bunker" by piling too many sandbags upon it. Is that the impression you want to leave me with?:DL

C'mon, just one, and I promise I won't bug you about it again. I won't even make fun of the Air Force. Scout's honor.

Oh, right. Like we're gonna believe you was a scout.:har:

Hah hah, don't tempt me. You'll open the floodgates of bitching. While i'll defend the AF on occasion, in reality, my personal opinion is, if you want to bag on the AF, get a number and stand in line, the line is behind me, cause i got first dibs. :O:

What could i possibly tell you? Making a giant sling shot out of 550 cord? Climbing down a 2 X 2 corrigated "chimney" in a reventment to wield metal that was a foot under water with a standard arc wielder? Intentionally dusting Army checkpoints with a dump truck i was operating? Then there's always the hazards of metal concrete forms and "bright ideas". Dumbass things you do when you get used to working with alot of steel? Or maybe oxey acetaline bombs with hospital condoms and AAFES cups? Frog baseball with broken sledge hammer handles, or perhaps the Frog cannon?

I didn't and I'm glad of it - and I have every respect for the military's role and culture. I just know that I would make an utterly useless soldier, so better to be a slightly more useful someone else where I have the opportunities - which thankfully my education and interest in teaching afford me.

But I have great respect those that serve/served. Thank you :salute:

(Incoming wall of text)

Since i have nothing to do at the moment while i wait for this script to finish, ill try and give a small glimpse into AF culture for UnderseaLcpl's benefit. Mind you, most of what i'm going to write is from my perspective as a CE troop.

The branch is divided into commands as i'm sure you know. The three biggest ones used to be called MAC, SAC, and TAC. Cold war era names that changed when the branch was restructured in the early 90's.

- Material Airlift Command became Air Mobility Command (or AMC, which i thought stupid. Name a command after a movie theater chain? bad idea)

- Strategic Air command.. was done away with if im not mistaken. No longer exists, or was folded into TAC.

- Tactical Air Command became Air Combat Command or ACC.

Each AF base falls under some major command. So bases tend to fall into one of these catagories.

Why do i mention this? Other commands included ATC, or Air Training Command. It's nickname was the American Toy Company. And ATC bases were called "Toy bases". In reference to all the marching, and the "toy soldiers" who inhabit them.

Other commands include PACAF, or Pacific Air Command. I was in PACAF for awhile on an ACC base, i was also assigned to a Toy base which sucked, and an AMC base.

Being assigned to an ACC base sucks in one way. Jets are loud. F16's taking off with after burners ratteling your windows at 3 am and what not. Or you'll be having a bull session, and everyone in unison just shuts up when the runway is active. Its pointless to try and talk over it. So everyone just shuts up, and when the fly fly boy is off into the wild blue yonder you continue your conversation.

Being assinged to an AMC base is interesting, not loud, but interesting. This is where the AF keeps all the cargo birds. When the ****'s hitting the fan somewhere in the world, your the first one to know because all the cargo planes will just be gone one day. Its like a houdini act. One day their there, next day their ALL gone.

Being on a Toy base just sucks. Your out of training, but you have to deal with all the hardcore Lazy Ineffiecient F**kers Expecting Retirement that eat, sleep, and breath Professional Military Education. I actually had one of these dillweeds come at me to inform me i was not wearing my cover correctly and I shouldn't be wearing it indoors. I knew this, but considering i was on major renovation job and coming in and out of the building constantly carrying things like 4 by 8 foot sheets of drywall, i let it go. He didn't agree, and took it upon himself to enter my job site, and correct me while i was running a god damn skill saw. For a brief moment, i considered holding the blade guard back, and chasing him with it until i ran out of extension cord.

Now as the AF goes, you have two types of AF's. You have the flying AF, and the non flying AF.

The flying AF is anyone who has something to do with planes. Either your maintaining them, flying them, whatever.

The non flying AF is anyone who has nothing to do with planes. The only time you see them, is when you have to sit your ass in one to go somewhere.

The powers that be, the generals who run the show, are whats called the "fighter mafia". They're all ex fly fly boys, and they all love their jets. This is why the AF will blow huge wads of cash on next gen fighters.


Back to AF bases:
A Wing has a base. A wing is numbered and has supporting units. For example, Osan AB is home to the 51st Fighter wing. (aka fifty worst) Supporting units could include:

51st Mission Support squadron
51st Services squadron
51st Maintainence squadron.
51 Civil Engineering Squadron (more on this in a bit)
etc etc etc

Squadrons typically have (or had i think the case is now) Organizational covers. The baseball caps youve probably seen. The purpose of these caps is to be able to visually see whos in what squadron.

When a base deploys, it will typically take elements of each squadron. As each squadron represents needed functionality. Squadrons themselves are not self contained in terms of support. The base is self sufficient through the various squadron types.

The following terminology might be CE specific:

The Orderly room is called the "head shed".

A male First Sargeant is simply called "First Shirt", in refernce to all the cheverons he has adorning his sleeve.

A female First Sargeant is called "First skirt", and never to her face.

An E9, is a Chief Master Sargeant. He his God, his promotion goes through congress somehow (not kidding), and you call him by his first name, which is "Chief". You can recognize him by the his 3 "rooftops". See chart:
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/scre...o_insignia.gif


Rank in the AF is slow and hard to come by. Your first 3 promotions are "gimme's". All you have to do, is not be a **** up, and have enough time in service. A good summery is you get 1 stripe per year. Up until Staff Sgt. Then you have to start testing. As you may have noticed the AF no longer has "buck sgts". Which leaves being E4 a little weird, and yet very cool. None of the responsibility, and none of the **** work, and yet your kind of a Jr NCO and are expected to set an example.

This is getting way too long, so i'll come back to CE.

AF has two types of CE. Base maintanence, and rapid deployable engineers. Naturally there is alot of rivalry between these two circles of engineering groups. Base CE (Prime Beef) like to claim they have to come back and fix everything the rapid deployable engineers (RED HORSE) screwed up. But the bottom line here is, If you ain't red horse, you ain't s**t. :O:

Being in the Horse is like being in a different branch of the military. Unlike a base which relies on its supporting squadrons, red horse is self contained. It's like a miniature AF base who's main mission is combat engineering. Red horse has its own vehicle maintanence, cooks, medical, etc. So take any AF base, shrink it down to 450 personnel, and make its primary mission combat engineering, and you have a red horse squadron.

A red hose squadron is considered a special duty assignment, and is typically a 3 year controlled tour. You get alot of special training that normal AF personnel don't get. You also get a Special Experience Indentifier stamped on your military record.

The thing about being in the horse, is it opens your eyes to how easy the rest of the AF really has it. Why do i claim to be number 1 in the "Bag on the AF" line? Because I can't count the number of times i came back to home station thinking, "These people have it easy and they don't even know it!". In the horse, you develop a unique mindset. My understanding is the mentality is much akin to a Marines. The reason is, in the horse, when your working and not at home station, you don't have much contact with anyone in the AF other then your fellow horseman.

The horse has its own unique cultural quirks. Picture a commanders call, and the whole squadron sounding off, "Chew tabbacco, chew tabacco, chew tabbcco .. SPIT.. if you Aint Red horse, you aint sh*t! HOOOAHH!!'

Then theres a "Horse call". Thats were we all raid the same bar (or bars together). Technically their an illegal gathering because we show up in force and kick everyone else out by overwhelming numbers. Attandence is pretty much mandantory on horse calls.

And that ends this long ass post. I could write alot more, but i think this is plenty.

Now that wasn't so difficult, was it? I found that whole post rather informative and enjoyable. It gives me some context. Also, I loved the chew tobacco bit.

Now if you've still got nothing better to do, I'd like to hear about that giant slingshot. I've heard of a lot of uses for 550 cord, some of which are NSFW, but a slingshot? What the hell for?



Oh, but I was. Scout's honor. :D

Everybody has their "hate-and-horror" stories, but my brief experience with the USAF was just the opposite.

After finishing eight weeks of boot camp and three months of RM 'A' school they told me I was going to serve in destroyers and was headed for "unknown parts". I got a week's leave, then reported back to San Diego NTC. Since there was nothing for me to do, which they couldn't have, I got the delightful job of policing the parade grounds - picking up trash and cigarette butts for three wonderful days. Then they put me on a commercial flight to San Francisco, and a bus to Travis AFB. There were only three or for of us sailors in the barracks, and we slept until we couldn't sleep any more. Around 0900 a sergeant of some kind came in and gave us our orders for the day: "Hey, guys. Welcom to Travis. Want a tour of the base?" That was it. The Navy couldn't tolerate us doing nothing for one minute. The Air Force treated us like royal guests.

I could add a lot of detail to this story so you'd have the full picture in context, but the summation of "what for" is malicious fun. Everybody.. well i think everybody, does stupid crap when overseas, during those moments of intolerable boredom.

Anyway, with the 550 cord slingshot, how that worked is you take a length of 550 cord (obviously). Tie one end of it to an upright I beam. Add three Horseman to the other end, and have them pull on it with all their body weight, and get a 4th to tie the cord off to another I beam. (For my part, i was pulling on the cord, my buddy did the knot tying).

Then.. since this is a construction site.... all those spent wielding rods that are laying about on the ground? That's your ammunition. Now, how well this works depends on how thrifty the wielder was. In this case the 4 of us were the wielders, so the rods where ours. One guy was what you'd call a "half rodder". meaning he'd burn through half the rod before tossing it and putting in an new one. (No that wasn't me) The rest would burn the rod all the way up to the stinger. Anyway, you take these wielding rods and bend them in half. A longer rod is easier, a shorter rod harder because these rods have a lot of tensile strength.

With your gloves on, take your bent rod, and hook it on onto your mighty 550 slingshot, and hang onto it with both hands. Lean all the way back, with all your body weight, and release it, without falling on your ass. You'd be amazed at how far you can shoot spent rods. By my memory , i think it was to the tune of at least 150 yards. What we were aiming at, was these birds that had started to roost along these power lines that exterior electricians had put up some time earlier. We were taking bets as to who could nail em.

All the 550 line I've ever dealt with wasn't elastic enough to do this....?

And, I hate to pull a sailor steve here.... but.... its welding, not wielding. You can wield a welding rod. :oops::yeah:

Well this was some years ago. We probably doubled it up. We must have otherwise we wouldn't have needed 3 people to get it tight enough to do anything with it. It was great fun for awhile, but honestly anything using oxyacetlyne was much more fun. :D

Apparently nowadays though, even fluorescent light bulbs are great fun if your bored enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z42VQoEUheU

SAC was transmorgofied into Strategic Command or StratCom.

I was a SAC rat for many years.


So, how many Air Force Academy Grad Fighter Pilots does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Just one. He just holds it and the whole damn Air Force revolves around him. :D

I have always been confused on the mission of Red Horse.

Is their mission to build stuff and then kill the enemy?
Is their mission to kill the enemy and then build stuff?
Is their mission to build stuff while killing the enemy at the same time.

Of course at least some part of their mission involves alcohol too. :salute:

US Army 1970-71.

In Basic training at Ft. Lewis Washington in February '70 I swear it rained 5 out of 7 days the entire time. I grew up in frigid Minnesota but NEVER felt as cold as I did during Basic because I was never dry. Pay was $80 a month...paid in cash.
We had a skinny little drill Sgt looked alot like Sammy Davis Jr and he was about the same size. His favorite harassment was to make you do push ups but the kicker was he'd sit on your back while you did them.

Went to jump school at Ft Benning Ga during the summer of '70, but never got to jump again after getting my wings and experiencing that wonderful pinning ceremony. :D Being Jump qualified got me an extra $50 every month.

Jump school mess hall had a sign over the exit door. "If you are still hungry, why are you leaving?" Never saw that anywhere else before or after. That mess hall had the best food ever.

My MOS was 11B4P The 11B means I was a grunt...infantry. The P designates the Paratrooper training and the 4 refers to rank. I was a Buck Sgt E5 when I got out.

No regrets. Had some good times and got close to a few good guys, but in the end if my grandson in a few years wanted to join up I'd try to persuade him to do something else.

Growing up I loved hearing the stories about my dad's father (he died a few months before I was born) about serving on corvettes in WW2.

Few interesting stories at that :).

It'd be pretty cool if there could be a subsection in GT for those who served to post stories and whatnot.

Estonian defence forces, recon infantry.

IDF "Golani" :salute:

Oh, ok, then.:D

I remember graduating EOD school, our badge was referred to as a "crab" (because it kinda looks like a crab). The term Blood Crab is used to describe the pinning on ceremony. I imagine yours was similar. :yep:

Ah the good ole days in the military, boy they sucked. :D

:yep:

A video was made public a few years ago of this pinning ceremony and it caused an uproar so it is possible that they no longer do this.

For the uninformed, think of a lapel pin but it has 2 pins. Poke the pins through your shirt on your chest then hit it hard enough to nail it into your pectoral.
:arrgh!:

Edit: I looked up your EOD badge. Not much difference from a parachutist badge.

They probably feel the same too. :har: