already released for SH4 and SH5 :up:

With you referring to the .dsd file that means you have version 1. Please update to version 3 at post #1. The file is now a .dat file and I use hex editor to adjust values. You could probably use S3D but not sure as I don't use it.

Yes...I rechecked and all works well

Thx again TDW:up:

TDW is now officially the first multi-tasking modder. This must be the first time in SH history that a modder has released a mod simultaneously for SH3, SH4 and SH5.

congrats TDW. :woot:

Second time actually. First time was my ship/plane fire/smoke damage :DL

All the file structures are basically the same with SH5 throwing some strange quirks every once in awhile (due to the GR2 format). This makes it easy to port something I make in SH5 to SH3/4.

Appreciate all the tweaks, thanks again! :yeah:

Double thanks for the SH3/4.:up:

I've received some feedback in the SH5 mods forum in regards to this saying that some other games that have modeled this behavior set the lifetime of the disturbance effect to 30-60 seconds. Currently I have it set to 8 seconds. What do you all think the lifetime of it should be :06:

HI TDW, perhaps have 2 versions "lite" and "strong"?

I also guess that 8 is so few; 20-60 is better.

Also IMHO isn´t a good idea to have the effect for the headhogs, they have a more short explosion, without so much bubbles, then its RL disturbance is probably despresible.

I noticed that the time is in minutes but I heave a much better effect when i set life_time=10. I don´t know why but the result was more noticiable and yet without excess.

Also on the file structure you use two DC explode´s effects to call the virtual bold. I use the settings that i wrote some posts above only attached to one, under_explosion (so, only 1 call per DC) and the result is very good and the file yet more simple.

But for sure this mod is so good that the community most try it for a while and then, with more observations, we can have at end the "best" settings.:up:

The game will use only one of those two depending on where the DC explodes in relation to the sub. That is why I included both of them for each kind of depth charge.
As for the hedgehogs I can make a smaller disturbance for them.

Surely somebody knows how long the effect lasts for both DC and HH.
I will look into this tomorrow and see if I can come up with some reasonable time frame. Since the DC is dropped behind the moving destroyer in the dead zone, it may last a long time, until the DD has a chance to turn and acquire the sub again. As for the hedge hogs, since they are thrown in front and to the side, and since they are many of them, the ASDIC disturbance could be worse. This is just speculation. Someone must know.

It might also vary depending upon the date in the war, as I assume the equipment improved over the years as did radar.
In the mean time, I think a time of 60+/- would make the game better. Too short and it won't help, too long and it is probably not as interesting as it may make evasion too easy.
This is a great mod and add a lot to the game. Thanks again.

It's difficult to come up with specific references off the top of my head, but I do recall reading something in the range of 30 seconds. Most accounts describe the period of sonar loss as 'brief,' but few go so far as to assign an actual time frame.

One thing they do seem to agree on is that it was often tricky to reacquire contact even after the turbulence had subsided. Hence the need to develop multiple tracking tactics.

I too will look into this to see if I can find some reputable sources that help spell it out. Once again great mod, thanks for sticking with it and especially for considering community input.

This applies if only one DD is chasing...in a Hunter-Killer group there is at least one DD listening on hydrophones

Times for asdic disturbance:

When escorts dropped depthcharges, they sank slowly, and exploded at different depths (e.g. some at 100m, some at 150m, for a 'bracket' of the U-boat.)

Thus the total time of disturbance was likely to be of the order of minutes, not seconds. I think Rubini's suggestion of 10 minutes was pretty good.

[To give a concrete example, when two *expert* sloops attacked U-504 almost simultaneously, at great depth, in two attacks separated by just six minutes, it required almost an hour to re-establish contact. This was in June 1943, when asdic equipment was efficient.]

Also, the whole point of the Hedgehog-discharged bombs (not depthcharges) was that they exploded only on contact with a U-boat (this is wrongly modelled in SH3), so there was never *any* disturbance in the water if they missed their target. That was why the hedgehog attack was so popular - no loss of asdic contact during the approach to the target, no loss of contact by neighbouring escorts if the bombs missed.

This is another great mod, TDW, indeed another essential mod. But times of disturbance have to be changed, and I regret to say that it is desirable to remove the addition for the hedgehogs.

Stiebler.

Maybe that could be fixable...?

While I have no experience in this, my guess would be that the devs just treated them as smaller, forward flung DC's, as they exhibit a lot of the same properties as DC's. Not sure how SH3 is coded, but it might entail introducing a whole new type of object in the game.

Although, if you could mix the object properties of a torpedo and a DC, you might have a HH, and then you could add the disturbance, as I'm sure it would cause that.

Just throwing that out there, as sometimes it take's an outsiders idea to spur a new approach to something.

I have an idea as to how this can work. Will try it and see. Hedge hogs are the same way in SH5 so they need to be corrected to work like they are supposed to :yep:

v4.0 released. See post #1 for details.

I left hedge hogs in until they can be make to function like they do/did in real life. Still working on it.

After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists. What I did learn is that the destroyer always looses contact after an attack and it takes a while to reestablish, if it can be. As Stiebler pointed out, an hour or more was not uncommon. Another source stated that there is a one in fifteen chance of establishing contact if the correct procedures were followed but that they rarely were.
Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating.
So apparently a single destroyer was not very effective against the WWII subs. If a single destroyer was attacking a sub, the tactic was to keep the sub submerged under periscope depth while allowing the convoy to escape. The depth charges were dropped set for shallow explosions to keep the sub down and unable to attack while the convoy moved on. The destroyer would then trail the convoy and to prevent the sub from surfacing and attacking.
Up until late 1942 or early 1943 (April) the US tactics were not to sink the subs but to prevent attacks on the convoy and success was determined not by how many subs were sunk, but how many ships reached port.
This changes in 1943 (for the US).
In the Pacific, the Japanese ran out of destroyers in 1944 so the US subs were unopposed in the last year of the war.
This mod is terrific and really adds to the game.

Great work again, TDW :up: Thanks a lot for sharing! It's a mod for which I have been waiting a long time.

Just a small idea: it might be good to have two bolds per depth charge explosion: one with a short life time and much noise (to simulate the hydrophone's inability to track the target) and a second with longer life time, but no noise (to 'blind' the ASDIC).

Cheers, LGN1