Ending them as they are.

People will never be denied care in emergencies, won't happen. Medicaid needs to exist mostly to cover that cost, not primary care. There are outfits doing primary care for $30 a visit. There is a market that can be filled (the benefit of primary care is overstated, IMO, 90-something % of what GPs see is self-limiting anyway).

As it is, medicare pays more now than anyone paying in could have reasonably expected. The drug beni (stupid Bush) needs to be eliminated 100%. No one receiving it now paid a penny in expecting it. 100% repeal of that. Medicaid is nothing more than charity, we can do to it what we like. We should remember it is CHARITY care. If you have a good year at work, you donate more to charity. If business is rough and you can barely make payroll... you stop giving large donations to charities. If our balance sheet (the USA) is in () then we cannot afford much charity.

Don't say that it won't happen. If you're willing to let a poor person go without normal care it's not that far a stretch to someday prevent emergency care as well for the same reasons.

When I had a minor heart attack a few years ago it cost my insurance company over 70 THOUSAND dollars for a 20 minute stent implant procedure and a two day hospital stay for observation. Since then easily another 3-4 grand for various tests and follow up doctor visits. You're saying tough tuchus to all that if I didn't have insurance? If that's so I don't think i'd want to live in your America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncWkl...eature=related :up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-oPd...eature=related

yes, the health care industry can be non-profit.

the problem with that is simple... the government shouldnt be non-profit, the government should be operating within a balanced budget, when you keep piling trillions on trillions on trillions of dollars onto the heaping debt, eventually you revert to being a third world country.

As long as my medication is paid for in full, my surgery is paid for in full, my hospital stays are paid for in full and i get to make private personal decisions about my health care - i dont give a rats anus if the insurance company paying for it all makes a profit. i dont.

the most common reason someone does not have health insurance is because they work a job that does not provide it as a perk.

guess, what? while you are entitled to health care (and have always received it for free in the ER), you are not entitled to health insurance... its a service, that you buy, with your own money.

If a person desires insurance, they need to get the proper education in order to get the job that provides it... OR... they need to go out and purchase some form of insurance suitable to their lifestyle with their own money.

you shop for car insurance that is both affordable and also commensurate with your needs, why don't more people take the time to shop for health insurance the same way?

Im insured, i pay for that luxury with my own money, I have absolutely no intent to help pay for anyone elses insurance, especially when its paid via a forced subsidy through taxation by the federal government or else i have to face legal penalties.

thats ludicrous

Bill Mayer is a partisan idiot. If he told me the sky was blue i'd doubt him.

Non-profit doesn't necessarily mean that they make a loss. Non-profit means exactly that: no profit. Nothing more.

I wouldn't exactly call healthcare insurance a luxury. It saves lives. Everyone should have an equal chance to have medical treatment. If a rich man with an insurance gets some disease, his treatments get paid for and he lives. If a poor man without insurance gets a disease, he can't pay for it and he dies. Fair?

If you were talking about paying for another man's car, or TV, or house or cellphone or whatever, I couldn't agree more with you. Those things are luxury items. Healthcare isn't. Healthcare isn't something you can do without, healthcare is something you *need*.

So why do you still pay to maintain the countless roads you'll never use? Why pay tax to maintain the fire brigade, while your house will probably never burn down?

Why pay tax at all?

Whenever this comes up, all that anyone ever considers are talking points. Why not solutions?That would be horrible. Forcing insurers to cover preexisting conditions without requiring people to carry coverage would be a disaster to the industry. Why then would anyone carry coverage? Insurers make money from HEALTHY people.

In my opinion, there's no reason we can't keep our current, effective system (save for the financing) while addressing the potential disasterous financial pitfalls that could occur in emergencies. Why not simply have the feds cover any annual expenditures over a certain amount? Make it high enough so that people don't clog the system with colds while low enough to allow production citizens a safety net in case of emergency.

Well I like that idea Mike!

Amen, trooper.

Just before she passed, I found two statements from the hospital that was treating my mom for leukemia: One week's stay, with treatment: $139,000. The next week's stay: $148,000. That was only two weeks across her sixth month illness. Other statements, including the initial treatment period when she was first diagnosed, were comparable.

Good thing our health care system as it exists today isn't broken. [/sarcasm]

The fundamental flaw with ANY health care plan legislation is that it's trying to fix a currently unrecoverable system. Legislation can't fix a system that is rife with exploitation, experimentation, and frivolous or spiteful lawsuits.

Legal scholars are already picking apart the judge's ruling:

I think that's a very valid point that's being raised.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...are-ruling.php

I have to wonder why some folks push SO hard to have the government control every solitary detail of their private lives.

i cant understand it.

Did the government ever deliberately sell people fake medicine? Did the government ever use paperclips instead of proper dental posts?

I'm no great supporter of government run health care but medical treatment for profit is nothing more than a perpetual rip off.

Different Strokes to Different Folks i guess.

I wonder what else should be not for profit?

I feel bad for those docs and nurses now.

there should be financial profit in digging a hard boiled egg out of a 480 lbs woman's anus.

(just one thing on the list of things i have known friends and family to have to do while working in the med field)

Fire fighting and policing are two things that come to mind.

maybe im not understanding... are you saying doctors nurses firefighters and police should not be paid for their services due to their industries operating at a perpetual loss?

somehow i dont think thats what your meaning.

Where do you get the idea that not for profit means people work for free?

Let me turn your question around. Should fire fighters and policemen be able to set their own rates? Should you have to pay, say 70 thousand dollars, before the FD will come and put your house fire out? Or maybe you think it's not unreasonable to pay 100 thousand bucks before the cops will investigate who murdered your family?

Those are the type of things that people without insurance, and all too many with insurance, have to deal with before getting medical care. As long as that is the case you can't tell me our present health care system is all that great.

Easy man, wasnt meaning to strike a nerve.

but yes, i think firefighters and policemen and Drs and Nurses should be paid and paid well.

I think our present tax dollars cover police and fire services well enough.

I just dont think that the mandate of Obamacare is the end all be all answer to our problems.

and i certainly dont think the government is the end all be all answer to our problems either.

a dangerous precedent we are setting in America is greater and greater government reliance.

soon, it seems, the government will be all there is and your choices will be to either a. work for the federal government b. collect welfare or c. be homeless

Certainly not, but nor is unbridled, take-no-prisoners capitalism. I had an ultrasound the other day, a simple 20 minute procedure run by a couple medical techs, no doctor or nothing, and it cost me and my insurance company over $2500 bucks! I'm sorry but that just ain't right.

But understand, it's not the concept of paying that I have the problem with, just the unaffordable prices now associated with it. Make health care affordable. That is the key.

:DL I must not be emoting properly if you thought that was striking a nerve! I'm just being the normal me.

August - but you have to look at WHY that cost was so high. Malpractice insurance - the cost of the machine (which is astronimical) - not counting the money the techs made. Sure, they make a decent living - but if you think the majority of that went into their pockets your wrong.

The biggest costs in medical care are overhead - facilities and equipment. Followed closely by the costs of medication. Now - if everyone who accessed medical care PAID for it - even if it was a reasonable sum - then the costs of doing BUSINESS in health care would decrease. But between the insurance, R&D, non-payments, etc - the costs are huge. Then you have the employees - be they docs, nurses or whatnot.

When a "miracle pill" is developed - that first pill off the line may cost 10's of millions of dollars. All the ones after? A few pennies. But the business has to average that out. The cost of the MRI machine? Average over 1 Million. The business then has to figure maintenance etc - so every usage has to help cover those costs...

Fix the overhead problems, get people to actually PAY for services, not sue at the drop of a hat, etc - and medical costs would drop drastically.

Some excellent points. I'm personally not against government having a hand in this sort of thing. I just believe our Federal government was created for a specific purpose, and this wasn't it. None of the other services you described are provided by the Feds. They are necessary, and in the case of police and fire departments, the government is the only way to make them work. The state and local governments do a very good job of managing those services. Perhaps medical care could be run the same way.