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-   -   Homeopathy (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171679)

FIREWALL 06-30-10 04:31 PM

It all depends. Some home remidies are good for a skin rash.

But, if I have oozing, burning pustules, I'm gonna run to the Dr. fast and get some real treatment. :yep:

TarJak 06-30-10 09:55 PM

If it looks like a duck, moves like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck. Quackery no doubt in my mind.

Schroeder 07-01-10 05:40 AM

May I ask how many of the quackery guys here have already taken homoeopathic medicine? As I said I never took anything of that stuff myself but I know some people who had great experiences with it (and it wasn't about mental stuff).

NeonSamurai 07-01-10 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater (Post 1431627)
Opinions don't matter. If it is not quackery, then it could prove it works in proper, controlled studies—more than the placebo effect. It does not.

The irony though is there are a pile of drugs from pharmaceutical companies that really do not show much effect beyond the placebo effect. That and of course how they tamper with the study to get desirable results.

Skybird 07-01-10 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder (Post 1432470)
May I ask how many of the quackery guys here have already taken homoeopathic medicine?

Me, long time ago, when I was at university and had many freinds who experiemnted with many different things, amongst them that couple with that cat I mentioned.

Needless to say, I felt no effect.

But to answer in a different way as well: may I give a free quote by Mr. Spock from one novel I read back in those years:

"When I am standing on a huge object that has mass and is rotating around a centre axis, then I know that there is gravitation, and then I must not see the apple I let slip from my hand falling to the ground, but I already know that the apple will fall to the ground."

Herr-Berbunch 07-01-10 10:49 AM

My thoughts on this subject, for what they are worth, are that there can be no doubt that some homeopathic remedies work for some people, even if it is a placebo effect if you feel better that is surely the point.

This comment in no way stops me from taking the x:ox out of my wife when she tries something wacky in some macho-bravado stance (just don't tell her that!)

STEED 07-01-10 01:34 PM

Never believed it, never will.

Any one for herbal tea?

Safe-Keeper 07-01-10 02:13 PM

Nice podcast on homeopathy here.
After watching that one, you will be able to truly appreciate this one, in which he really drives the point home:D.

The whole prospect of the "all-natural", "evil Big Pharma" fad scares me. It's just not how gullible people shell away money on stuff that either doesn't work, doesn't work as well as conventional medicine, or has adverse side-effects they don't tell you about -- it's the sheer lack of logic used to support all this that gets to me. For example, how people are so busy slinging mud at conventional medical practice that they forget that alternative remedies have side-effects just as conventional remedies. Or how disturbingly effective anecdotes are, when in reality they're utterly worthless to prove anything. What frightens me is how apparent it is that so many lack the required critical thinking skills to cope with the avalanches of conflicting information we are buried under in today's Information Age.

My favourite is the people who are terrified of vaccines because they contain microscopic amounts of some kind of mercury (far less than in, say, sea food), and say they would rather take natural remedies.
Um... guys? Mercury is natural:damn:. It's a chemical element. How much more natural can something get? Oh, and the Chinese had great faith in it as medicine 3000 years ago. Oh, and Big Pharma says it's dangerous. I thought that was all the alternative crowd needed; All Natural, Chinese Wisdom, and shunning from evil Big Pharma:D?

Quote:

May I ask how many of the quackery guys here have already taken homoeopathic medicine?
Doesn't matter, as we're not discussing some brand of ice cream, coffee, or submarine combat simulator. Whether homeopathy works is a scientific question that can be, and has been empirically tested. If tests reveal -- and they have -- that it doesn't work as good as, or any better than, a placebo, then it doesn't change anything if I try it -- if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Quote:

One example for humans:
A friend of my mother has had problems with a tooth. There was a painful swelling in the upper jaw. After some days she took some homoeopathic pill and the swelling was gone within hours.
Even if this should have been only a placebo effect it definitely did cure the problem.
Sorry to be an ***, but how do you know that? Swellings have a tendency to go away by themselves, often within a couple of days.

Fish 07-01-10 02:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYFwT1LcBdI&feature=fvst

Homeopathy is nothing more than amusing bunk!

Safe-Keeper 07-01-10 02:29 PM

James Rand is a god.

Skybird 07-01-10 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED (Post 1432816)
Never believed it, never will.

Any one for herbal tea?

Depends on the health issue. In some cases, herbal essence may just turn out to be working chemical agents. there is no mystery about it - it's is a chemical-physiological effect that helps, or not.

At least as long as you do mean herbs for sure - and not insist on tea leaves being plucked at full moon in the 19th night of the 7th month of the year, and then stored for 12 days and nights in purified water held in a silver bowl and buried in sacred earth under a layer of rose quartz! :D

Skybird 07-01-10 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper (Post 1432838)
After watching that one, you will be able to truly appreciate this one, in which he really drives the point home:D.

ROTFLMAO! :har:

Best return possible!

AngusJS 07-01-10 11:05 PM

It's just water.

The standard dilution for the homeopathic "treatment" for flu is 200C, i.e. a dilution of the "active" ingredient to one part per hundred, repeated 200 times. To quote the book Voodoo Science:

Quote:

That would result in a dilution of one molecule of the extract to every 10^400 molecules of water...But there are only 10^80 atoms in the entire universe. A dilution of 200C would go far, far beyond the dilution limit of the entire visible universe!
A homeopathic experiment using a common substance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1B2aFElfjE

And what if homeopathy was used in emergency rooms?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Skybird 07-02-10 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusJS (Post 1433236)
It's just water.

The standard dilution for the homeopathic "treatment" for flu is 200C, i.e. a dilution of the "active" ingredient to one part per hundred, repeated 200 times.

Wrong. They have two scales to describe the delution level in homeopathy, the X- (or D-) and the C-scale (from the Roman number system, I think). 200C (=400X) means a dillution of 1 : 10E400 (an exponent with 400 zeroes, yes).

the number of particles in all universe is estimated to be 10E78

Edit: I just realised you were describing the process of potentisation (=Potenzierung), so I somewhat misread your post. However, your statement that 200C means "a dilution of the "active" ingredient to one part per hundred", nevertheless is wrong. the number does not mean a final dilution relation of 1:200, but means that that the process of potentisation" is repeated 400 times (400D=200C), with each potentisation step meaning a further dilution of 1:10. "2C" for example equals "4D/4X" and thus means a dilution of 1 : 10E4=10000, not 1:2.

AngusJS 07-02-10 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1433391)
Wrong. They have two scales to describe the delution level in homeopathy, the X- (or D-) and the C-scale (from the Roman number system, I think). 200C (=400X) means a dillution of 1 : 10E400 (an exponent with 400 zeroes, yes).

the number of particles in all universe is estimated to be 10E78

Edit: I just realised you were describing the process of potentisation (=Potenzierung), so I somewhat misread your post. However, your statement that 200C means "a dilution of the "active" ingredient to one part per hundred", nevertheless is wrong. the number does not mean a final dilution relation of 1:200, but means that that the process of potentisation" is repeated 400 times (400D=200C), with each potentisation step meaning a further dilution of 1:10. "2C" for example equals "4D/4X" and thus means a dilution of 1 : 10E4=10000, not 1:2.

I mean (for example) 1 ml of extract is put in 99 ml of water and shaken. Then one ml of that is put in another 99 ml of water, a step that is repeated 199 times.

conus00 07-02-10 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater (Post 1431110)
Quackery.

Homeopathy is to Medicine

as

Astrology is to Astronomy.

Well put.

Blacklight 07-02-10 12:58 PM

There's only ONE homeopathic thing that I tried that actually worked. I have horrible 24/7, year round, nasal allergies that REALLY affect my quality of life. I'm taking every perscription drug that I can possibly take for it and I've also done allergy shots and nothing has worked so far except to stave off the symptoms just a little bit. I decided that I had nothing to lose by trying something homeopathic because it was the only thing I havn't tried yet.
With homeopathic stuff, I am a huge skeptic but I decided to give it a shot anyway. I tried several things, all with absolutely NO result. Then I found this stuff called "Nasalcrom" and it's amazing the difference that it makes. Unlike most homeopathic stuff where you have to keep taking it for a month or more for it to take effect according to the manufactuers, it works immediately. It doesn't totally kill the allergies, but it REALLY made a difference in my ability to actually breath through my nose.
The only drawback is that it last for three hours and then you have to dose again and you can take it up to 6 times a day. Even so, a single bottle of it lasts me a month. It's the only homeopathic drug that I actually would reccomend.

The other catch with it is that it works fantastic with nasal allergies, but does nothing if you have a sinus infection. This stuff actually does work and I reccomend it to anyone with nasal allergies.

tater 07-02-10 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight (Post 1433746)
There's only ONE homeopathic thing that I tried that actually worked. I have horrible 24/7, year round, nasal allergies that REALLY affect my quality of life. I'm taking every perscription drug that I can possibly take for it and I've also done allergy shots and nothing has worked so far except to stave off the symptoms just a little bit. I decided that I had nothing to lose by trying something homeopathic because it was the only thing I havn't tried yet.
With homeopathic stuff, I am a huge skeptic but I decided to give it a shot anyway. I tried several things, all with absolutely NO result. Then I found this stuff called "Nasalcrom" and it's amazing the difference that it makes. Unlike most homeopathic stuff where you have to keep taking it for a month or more for it to take effect according to the manufactuers, it works immediately. It doesn't totally kill the allergies, but it REALLY made a difference in my ability to actually breath through my nose.
The only drawback is that it last for three hours and then you have to dose again and you can take it up to 6 times a day. Even so, a single bottle of it lasts me a month. It's the only homeopathic drug that I actually would reccomend.

The other catch with it is that it works fantastic with nasal allergies, but does nothing if you have a sinus infection. This stuff actually does work and I reccomend it to anyone with nasal allergies.

Is cromoglicic acid really "homeopathic?"

Since the active ingredient is NOT diluted to non-existence (the definition of a homeopathic "remedy"), I don't think it counts. Nasalcrom is: Cromolyn sodium 5.2 mg per spray. That's not diluted the silly homeopath way.

Blacklight 07-02-10 06:10 PM

Quote:

Is cromoglicic acid really "homeopathic?"

Since the active ingredient is NOT diluted to non-existence (the definition of a homeopathic "remedy"), I don't think it counts. Nasalcrom is: Cromolyn sodium 5.2 mg per spray. That's not diluted the silly homeopath way.
It CLAIMS to be homeopathic. Whatever it is, it really works well.

Skybird 07-02-10 06:41 PM

http://www.rxlist.com/nasalcrom-drug.htm

http://nasalcrom.com/product.php

Quote:

DRUG DESCRIPTION
Chemically, cromolyn sodium is the disodium salt of 1,3-bis (2-carboxychromon-5-yloxy)-2-hydroxypropane. The empirical formula is C23H14Na2O11; the molecular weight is 512.34.

Active ingredient (per pray): Cromolyn sodium 5.2 mg

Does not look and does not sound like homeopathic at all. 5.2 mg of something per spray bottle? No, not homeopathic, really.


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