So how would that work ?
Do you just kill anyone near the border who you think might be illegal or kill everyone just in case they are illegal or do you have to stop them, check they really are illegal and then kill them?

Border security is not an easy proposition.

You're talking about over 1500 miles of border. Almost all of which is open desert or rough terrain.

the answer here is not as backwards as placing machine gun nests every quarter mile.

there are multiple things that could be done here.

Why do illegals come to America? to secure employment which may not be available in their own country... so...

1. United States National ID - Similar to a passport but roughly the size of a driver's license. Contains all of the latest in anti-counterfeiting technology. They are valid for a 36 month period at which time they have to be renewed (much like a driver's license) They are numbered much like your driver's license has a DL number... any LEO enters the number into his computer and within minutes he will know if you are a legal US Citizen in possession of a valid NID or whether you are a person in possession of a forgery. These are not issued by states, but are instead issued on a federal level.

In order to be qualified to apply for a national ID you must meet all of the natural born or legally immigrated citizenship requirements. This is applied for at birth and is valid until your 16th birthday, and expires thereafter every 36 calendar months. The only personal information retained is whatever information would naturally be expected to appear on a Birth Certificate / Driver's license or passport.

Though this card does not have to be carried with you or readily accessible, it should be made available to a law enforcement officer upon his request assuming such a request was made after lawful contact (ie you broke some other law)

2. Employee Identity Numbers - Your United States National ID card number IS your employer ID number. If you apply for ANY job... your EID number, and your National ID card must be presented during the time of application.

3. Harsher laws for hiring or harboring of illegal immigrants - For example: If a corporation - say a construction contractor - during a random inspection is found to have employed illegal immigrants the company will be fined $250,000 for each of the first 10 illegal immigrant in employment, and $500,000 for each illegal immigrant beyond 10 in employment.

if a property owner or appartment complex or the like has been found renting property to an illegal immigrant, the property owner / complex etc in question is subject to a first offense fine of $10,000 for each illegal immigrant occupying the property furthermore, the property may be seized by the state and sold at auction (much like an impounded automobile).

if an individual, or dealer sells a car to any illegal immigrant, the entity must pay a fine of $25,000 or 5 times the appraised value of the vehicle whichever is greater. Furthermore, dealerships who have sold a car to an illegal may be seized by the state and their inventory and other assets sold at auction.

4. Streamline the LEGAL immigration channels - There are some immigrants who are here illegally because of the burdens associated with legal immigration. I know one young man who has been trying since he was 19 to become a legal citizen... he went to college on a student visa, he is 25 years old and still awaiting confirmation. :doh:

The state could even set up a list of "Nations in favorable standing for expedient immigration processing" if your nation is on the list... your immigration application is fast tracked.

5. Too many illegal immigrants jump the border to give birth - fine. Send The Federal Government of Mexico a f*ckin bill at the end of every quarter. "so what happens when they refuse to pay it?" thats cool... embargo all travel to Mexico.

Overwatch on the border, someone crosses by more than a few hundred yards, and you drop them.

There is no legal way to cross at a spot that is not defined as an entrance. Anyone crossing is illegal there.

The anti-employer stuff I'm fine with too, but we need to lock down the border to stop these criminals. AZ has been catching over 30 bad criminals with the new law per week. Meaning robbery, rape, and murder suspects who are illegals. That's 1500 per year in AZ alone.

Let a million in legally, but ZERO in illegally. I'm fine with Apaches taking them out, frankly. That poor little girl at the gym here (she was in daycare while mom was in gym).

We need thousands of predator drones to patrol the border.:rock:

Geez! People are joking about each others' states, and some are getting offended. My own 'Location' note changes on a whim, but I've never made any secret that I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Balls had nothing to do with WP's 'Location'. It's fun to put something 'cute' there. And neither one of the wisecracks were meant as insults, they were obviously jokes.

Anybody want to insult Utah? Good, so do I.:rotfl2:

What you mean to say is "Texas! Oh, that explains everything in the best, biggest, and most badass fashion possible!:yeah:"

So like a policy a very extreme totalitarian dictatorship would adopt then.
How many thosands of extra people would you have to employ?
How much land would the government have to purchase to accomodate all those people and all their posts?
How many extra extra people will you have to employ to protect the coastline when they shift to that route instead?
How many more vessels will have to be purchased and maintained?
How many more shore facilities will have to be built to accomodate those?
Then of course you will have an increase in the already existing tunnels, how far back from the border are you going to have to maintain a free fire zoner thats closed to everyone?
How much land will have to be purchased for that?

What you put forward is a typical knee jerk proposal aimed at a problem that may sound tough and pro-active but is unrealistic, damn expensive and most importantly ineffective.


I hate to break it to ya but the new law isn't in force yet:har:
The only State and local people in Arizona doing that job are those who already have the delegation of authority from ICE under federal law.

How about kids being brought along by their parents? How about pregnant women?

Kill them too?

OK, heard the 30 figure yesterday, I thought it was AZ, but it might have been the new procedure here in ABQ where ALL detainees caught by APD are now checked with ICE. SO maybe that was last week here in ABQ (I was driving when I heard it (local show) and my 3 YO was of course talking the entire time ("hey, daddy, what was that thing over there?" (repeat every 10 seconds for entire trip)).

Regardless, even if it was just extant law (again, the US federal law is far more harsh than the AZ law anyway), 1500 per year is too many—they've ALREADY COMMITTED THE CRIMES WHEN CAUGHT. That's 1500 excess crimes, and that's just those ICE got, and there is no way they catch 100%.

So, instead, lock the border down.

You said it was totalitarian. Nonsense. Totalitarian states point the guns INWARDS. If there were shoot to kill orders for LEAVING the US you';d be right. Stopping INVADERS is what the military is for. Illegal crossers are invaders.

As for women and children, I'd avoid taking them out—there is no shortage of men coming across, kill them first.

Or take out these guys first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZoOKBEggI

Nah uh! :O:



Somewhat on topic, im kinda in agreement with tater. I think if we pulled some overseas bases that do nothing but support the local economy of foreign countries and bring them back home and park them on the border... it would be a wonderful thing.

Oh yeah, and Meg Whiteman practically won my vote for governor with this radio commercial. Though i seriously doubt ANYONE could pull it off.

Yah-huh!:stare:

should be legal to hunt drug cartels down like deer or some dangerous game.

As my dad suggested, 'Just rotate Marine/Army units along the border for training exercises, and see what happens.'

My guess......


Hash marks. :haha:

Unfortunately gentlemen - none of these recommendations will ever happen.


You have a president and a congress in power who LOVE to bend to the will of these illegal's "plight".

Your president is more likely to push through an emergency amnesty bill than he is to sign tougher immigration laws.:nope:

Without a hot war - California is LOST. she ceases to be a State in any regards other than inclusion on our maps... it is a territory of Mexico now and that is a sad fact we must all face.

If you tried for mass deportations etc the entire Mexican Republic of California would erupt into violence.

The United States Military... and i do mean virtually every branch, would be involved in an 18-24 month campaign of enforcement in a land mass slightly larger in land area than Germany.

There are enough illegal Mexicans in the Los Angeles area alone (and legal Immigrants sympathetic to their situation) to burn that entire city to the ground from end to end.

Combine this with the fact that there are untold scores of legal and illegal firearms and a populace of desperate people... there will be blood.

Lets look at some history here.

Prior to the mid 1800s much of the present day Southwestern United States was Mexican Territory.

TEXAS- when the Mexican government removed almost all restrictions to legal immigration into its Northern Territory known as Texas there came a great deal of white settlers into the region. Within a matter of just a couple of years those white settlers were the majority, they held the population majority and they represented the majority of land owners, business owners etc.

One day, these men felt like they were being treated unfairly by Mexico, and fought for their independence - an independence which they eventually won. Texas formed it's own independent republic, and eventually accepted statehood into the United States. many argue that this acceptance of statehood was formed because Texans felt it would help protect them from future Mexican aggression.

California shares a very similar history as do much of the areas of the Southwest.

now... these illegal immigrants dont feel like they are breaking a law.

many of them probably feel like they are "taking back what is rightfully theirs"

problem is - they lost it all in a number of political gambles and wars and insurrections - fair and square.

The question is - what sort of leadership must we elect and what sort of things do we need to do to keep this from happening to Arizona, New Mexico and Texas?

Arizona is headed down the right path.

will we follow her?

we should, lest we place ourselves in a position to lose everything.

No i dont know how most Texans feel... But i'll be massacred in Goliad, Texas and gunned down in San Antonio or fight tooth and nail in San Jacinto before I'll willfully see the Mexican Flag (or the French or Spanish flags) fly over this land ever again.

Yeah, ive been saying for awhile now that the treaty of Gauadlope Hiledalgo is null and void. California is indeed irrecoverable, on many fronts. Not just immigration.

LOL

as if millions of illegal immigrants would even honor it. :88)

Well, in another couple years i might end up in Utah. Maybe i'll go say hello to sailor steve or something. :O: Never thought id see the day when i wanted... wanted to leave what i consider my native land. But, it's just not the same anymore. This isn't what home once was. I'll miss the sierra's and local mountains the most i think. That and a good chinese fast food joint. :haha:

Last estimates I saw were 12 Million illegals in the country...

Figure 1/3 of them are actually employed. The rest may be women watching the kids at home - who knows - lets just use the number for now.

Thats 4 Million Jobs.....

Pack em all up, ship em home - you not only save truckloads of money on welfare/medicaid costs, you also now have 4 million jobs that need filling. You'd have the citizens of this country asking "what recession?"....

Just sayin.

>>The rest may be women watching the kids at home

Kids who will be voting later on if not already because they were born here.
How LA can call a "boycott" on arizona me thinks.