What "[ethnicity] of the citizens of the land"?


Who care's about assimilation? We are not the Borg. People can speak whatever language they like, or maintain any (legal) cultural practices they so wish.

Oh, oh, ive heard of that! :woot:


http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.c...antasyland.jpg

^^ :yep: Resistance is futile.


What were they protesting?


I can agree with all of that, although it does help matters when a common language is spoken.



White people should just take a long walk off of a short pier.

*looks at self*

Dammit! :damn:



:D

Angus - not sure where your from - but the US has always welcomed legal immigrants - once they choose to become part of the "great melting pot" instead of seperate themselves. Historically, whenever any ethnic group has chosed to put themselves into their own clique, they have been shunned by the rest of America. The irish immigrants in the early 1900's are a perfect example.

Yet once that group drops its demands of primary loyalty to its previous ethnic identity, and chooses to become American first, and Irish, Scottish, Chinese, Mexican, etc - second, they are generally welcomed.

The issue here is that illegals have created for themselves this problem. Because they are here illegally, they draw the ire of the law-abiding citizenry. Because they are here illegally, they refuse to conform to the ways of our nation - costing the citizenry due to the demand for multi-language governmental services, etc.. Because they are here illegally, they are not contributing to the costs they incur, but too often avail themselves of the services the legal citizenry pays for - schools, welfare, etc.

Honstly, we wouldn't need to "secure" the border if we enforced three things:

#1 No social "service" or social safety net could be used by anyone not legal. This means welfare, food stamps, "emergency room health care" *unless in life threatening situations*, schooling, etc.
#2 Inform employers that if they are caught with an illegal for an employee, they are subject to a $1,000,0000,0000 fine and 5 years imprisonment - per worker. *This applies only if due diligence was not done*
#3 All governmental interaction with the people will be done in English. This not only makes it more difficult for the illegals to fight the changes (and they shouldn't be allowed to - its not their country!), but also requires any person, regardless of race or ethnic background, to assimilate into the majority of society. Language is one of the biggest barriers to this.

Do this - and the illegals have no ability to stay - nor any drive to come here. They can't stay because they will have no safety net and will lose their jobs. Give em 30 days to get the heck out.

Anyone want to bet what the unemployment rate would be if we did this? Or how much lower the burden on social systems would be?

Haplo,

concerning the ER, if you show up, you are treated, PERIOD. There are no exceptions to this, nor should there be. ER triage has no way to determine immigration status, and doctors would not let someone die for lack os a piece of paper regardless. Even if we had a national ID card, you might easily forget it in an emergency, so they'd not require it.

They're just not set up for this, and it's fraught with potential problems. The way to keep illegals out of the ER is to keep them out of the country. Hospitals are simply not set up to in effect detain people who are illegal. Even if you required illegals to pay cash on the spot right after treatment or face deportment, you'd ned people there to arrest them—and anyone can simply walk out of the hospital at will anyway.

Won't work.

Tater - when it comes to health care - I think that hospitals should have the RIGHT to refuse treatment in any non-lifethreatening/non-emergency case. For example - you walk into the ER for an earache, or a cold. It happens too often. The emergency room is for emergency medical care. Too many - and not just illegals - use it as their 24/7 doctor's office.

If the ER could triage a patient and say "I'm sorry Mr. Jones, but your not in need of emergency care. You need to see your regular doctor, or go to an urgent care center." - then it wouldn't be an issue.

Having a heart attack, go to the emergency room. Have a cold you can't shake - go somewhere else for your health care. Maybe I am just old - I remember when hospitals had a non-emergency health care entrance.

That's a great thought, and I'd agree, except that it's impossible.

A nurse at triage is NOT a doctor. Triage would then have to turn everyone away who was non-emergent, regardless of status. A nurse asking a couple "why are you here?" questions is not enough to determine what is really wrong—if it was, they'd not need the ER docs. Without a proper work up, people will suffer. Some will die. Really.

There are simply countless stories of people coming in for X (non-emergent) and finding out they have something really bad.

As much as I like the idea, it's not plausible.

While i would normally agree with you Captain, (and i do agree that the ER visitation stuff is abused to some extent)

lets look at some things... if 100 people go to the ER for a cold, and are turned away because it is not an emergency or life threatening illness or injury - ONE of those people had sniffles and cough as a symptom of Leukemia.

Uh oh.

or what about the migraines, Headaches not an emergency? Tell that to the lady with a grape sized Brain tumor.

Or the lady who has severer back pain one week after a car accident, Hamming it up for meds? or just wants an excuse to sue the driver of the truck that hit her?

I know that situation personally... illegal immigrant, drunk, in a pickup rear ended a friend of mine's sister.

she was fine for about a week then had serious back pain.

the ER thought she was after meds or trying to form a case for litigation against someone.

it was a Blood clot of some sort and she is now paralized from the middle of her back down to her toes.

You are clearly becoming senile, Hap. Modern hospitals have no entrances, all potential patients are required to use telekinesis to create their own entrance. If they do not possess telekinetic powers, they are SOL and must surrender themselves to a termination squad. :haha:

I see where you guys are coming from - and I have no problem with maybe having a doctor sitting in the triage area to help determine the need for Emergency care.

GR, your example shows that no system is perfect. But let me ask you - given how the ER system is abused, isn't it likely that without that abuse, the ER staff that failed to properly treat your sister would likely have taken a much less cynical view of her situation - perhaps ending with a better outcome for her? Its unknown - and no way to ever really know at all. Just that without the abuse, ER's around the country could do more of what they are there for - deal with the serious medical issues without the stress of the crap. I will keep her in my prayers, as such an outcome is truly a tragedy.

As for symptoms of lukemia - let me refer to the following site:
http://www.omnimedicalsearch.com/con...-leukemia.html
Early symptoms include those that could be mistaken for a cold or flu. Early being the key word here..... If your displaying cold or flu symptoms, and have to leave the emergency room to go to the urgent care or your doctor the following day, that isn't going to cause any real problem. If the doc or care center fails to diagnose you properly - thats not the fault of the er.

If the vast majority of people knew that the ER was for EMERGENCY usage, and honored that (either through their own actions or the ability of the ER to turn non-emergency cases away) - then the overload that ER's face would be removed - allowing them to deal with those emergency cases much more effectively.

Edit - Krashkart - so that was what was in the new health care law huh? Termination squads! Can't say I am suprised!!!!

Haplo, that won't work. A doc sitting there is not the same. He'd then be liable—and he'd not want to be liable without doing a real workup.

I could ask my wife and I KNOW she'd LOL t the suggestion.

And nazi dentists. :har: :DL

Tater - like I said, no system is perfect. My original point however stands, whether or not you include medical access or not. I fully admit that my knowledge of medicine is limited - but then again - if it wasn't so easy to sue a doctor because he misdiagnosed your hangnail, maybe alot of the CYA stuff that emergency rooms have to do wouldn't be there - and they could concentrate on providing medical care that people in an emergency room need...

Why call it an emergency room when its used for non-emergency things? What ever happened to non-emergency outpatient care....

The medical thing really has limited utility on topic - since the changes I would like to see in that field apply to everyone - regardless of legal status. With family members in the medical field, I feel for those in the ER, having to wipe little johnny's runny nose, when more serious needs are waiting.

Why not simply refuse treatment once a non-emergency diagnosis has been made?

"Sir, you have a cold. Now get out."

Like I said, I agree in principle. Stabilize people, THEN deport them. Make the ER setup such that illegals know it is covered by immigration authorities (feds, who by federal law can ask for paper just to have you prove ID with no suspicion or probable cause). They'll then think twice before going to the ER.

Errrrrrr. wow thats a hard one.
Why do people with non emergency things go to emergency things where they are covered even though it aint an emergency.
Haplo , you are supossed to be arguing in favour of the current balls up, not against it.....or vice versa

ER (usually called the "ED" these days, though that makes us laugh since ED is also a medical term, lol) use is complex.

One, lay people don't KNOW if it's emergent or not. They go to the ER to find out.

Two, expectations of how fast people should get ANYTHING now are higher than they used to be. We order products online, and expect them delivered tomorrow, lol. Fast food, fast everything. People get sick, decide to see a doc, then go to the ER because a few hours there i faster than waiting til they get seen with an appointment tomorrow. This even when most problems are self-limited and get better by themselves in a week or so.

Some are also gaming the system.

There you go tater:yeah:, Caps Lock strikes again.
People go to ER because they don't have a general practitioner or because they don't want to pay to have a practitioner send them to ER.

Have we not been through that before, that issue of different levels of care and the costs and effectiveness between them.

I actually like this idea. If it is truly an emergency, they get the medical care they need, but also have to accept the consequences.

On a related note, I would also like for hospitals to stop dropping noncollectable charges. If someone goes to the ER and can't pay, they still owe the hospital the money. They just need to work out a payment plan or try to go through some state or federal program. But the bottom line is that they can't just walk away from their debts.

First the hospital needs to have the authority to set up legally binding payment plans. If that does not work for all these non-collectible charges, then they should be sent to collection agencies. Even if the hospitals only get 50% of the money from the collection agencies, it helps keep the debt down and also sends a clear signal that health care, while available for everyone, is not free.

These debts need to be kept on the books for a long time. If the patient later get's a job, they still have a responsibility to pay their bills. :yep:

We have to stop the cycle of some people running up ER bills and then not paying with no other consequences. I don't care if it takes a patient 10 years to pay their hospital bill -- it has to be paid.

In the United States, all people should have emergency health care available... :yep:

But it is not free :nope:
And going to the ER will require you to demonstrate your citizenship/alien status. :yep:

It is unfortunate Tribesman that you do not realize that the ER is used for any aliment under the sun for those that do not carry insurance. The ER has become the practitioner. The ER is for EMERGENCY issues. Not, I have a cold or the flu. This is what glogs the the ER. This is what people show up for. In my neigborhood there are plenty of medical facilities that will look after non-emegency, non-life threatening issue.

Pay the practiction to send to the ER? The practictioner will not send them to the ER for a cold. ER is for emergency. It is sad really that people select the ER to look after the common cold. This takes the doctors attention away from people who really do need emergancy services at the ER.

So lets go through it one more time for the hell of it, just what are the different levels of care, cost and effectivness?