SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - SH5 Dick'O Kane (DoK) Tutorial

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- - SH5 Dick'O Kane (DoK) Tutorial (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167439)

I always use this type of attack at any AOB.. that is the beauty of the german TDC. You set it up pre firing.

All you need is the track and speed of the target.

This tutorial is very well written and is very helpful for new players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fincuan (Post 1354620)

1. This is not devised by DoK but based one some of the most basic principles of torpedo usage and proably invented much much earlier. IIRC Rockin Robbins just named it such because he had read in a book that DoK used such method and needed a good name when he wrote the original tutorial.
2. Real US TDC's did have a direct link to the periscope, something which just isn't modelled in SH4.

It's true, the actual method that Dick O'Kane used was not at all like the method presented as the 'Dick O'Kane' method, where it's innacurate, but works because you are close and the gyro angle are small.

Only the TDC mark 4 had a direct link to the periscope bearing, but it was not a direct input, it was for information purposes only. The earlier marks of TDC (like O'Kane had) did not have a direct link to the periscope. The true O'Kane method is to use the TDC to calculate the point of intersection between the periscope's line of sight and the target's track and direct all torpedoes to that point at any given moment. Gyro angle is not a concern.

Well done Aufklarer for posting a tutorial to help people!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gutted (Post 1355123)

yeah, i didn't mean to nitpick it so much. but when you start out with these mis-informations i felt compelled to:

1 - You MUST Engage targets from exactly 90'. WRONG
2 - The DoK attack method eliminates range from the firing solution and it is therefore not used. WRONG

It should be:
1. It works for any angle.
2. A zero gyro angle is what eliminates range.

I do this not to annoy you, but to inform anyone who decides to jump on this DoK bandwagon (like what was done in SHIV for awhile), what they REALLY should know. Especially since this is a U-Boat TDC, and not using it for what it's good at is just... well... lunacy. The whole purpose behind the DoK method was to get around having to use the Position Keeper in the U.S. boats.

I essentially transfered this into the SH5 platform i hoped it could give a better understanding for players new to manual tdc, i will amend the opening points as gutted has mentioned above. For me i have also learnt things from the points raised so far such as:

1. It works for any angle.
2. A zero gyro angle is what eliminates range.

I am still unsure in the case of your second point as to why my shots didnt miss even though at the point of firing my gyro angle was around the 7.4 mark (Slide 17). If i understand you correctly it would now introduce range? i set that to 10k.

I will amend as required so as to not misinform people, all critisisms are greatly recieved and hopefully it will lead to a greater understanding for people reading this thread.

TUTORIAL EDITED TO ADDRESS DISCREPANCIES AND MISINFOMATION (Thanks to those who commented)

Nice tutorial Aufklarer, thanks for posting it!

0 gyro angle techniques "without" the TDC are a good way of introducing new players to the "manual targeting universe". As soon as they realise that manual targeting is "doable" and of course enjoyable then they can get more comfortable with the TDC and the varius ways of using it ...... :yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diopos (Post 1355670)

This method dosnt always produce a 000 gyro angle as you can see from the tutorial but you are correct in what you say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufklarer (Post 1354797)

The fact remains that i am demonstrating the DoK method of attack, the intricacies of which are immaterial, i followed his supposed method taking an arbitrary lead angle and managed to produce consistant results. It is possible to work out every detail to 8 decimal places, but this isnt required for me to sink ships.

Once again id ask for comments relating to the tutorial of the DoK method, and not nit picking which this has become.

I wasn't nitpicking, I pointed out what I saw to be a flaw in the technique. To all extents and purposes, you can hit any target from any angle as long as you input good aob+range+speed. The reason why we use the perpendicular approach is mainly to shoot with impact detonators. Plus, it's easy to estimate AOB's. One trick I've used for a while now is to go on a 110 degree intercept course based on estimated AOB. This way, the target's AOB will be a nice 90 degrees when it reaches a relative bearing of 20. Plus you get a much better speed estimation when you can clearly see the broadside of a ship.

But the big flaw is that you can only do this attack with ample preparation. You need to overtake moving away targets and so on. Now, If you're gonna do that, why would you arbitrarily choose the los-bearing in the end? You have a TDC that does it for you, or, if you're using an american sub, you can set it up for a 000 gyro shot and then use printed tables to figure out when to shoot. Navies still use tables for pretty much anything you can think of. Or do as Gutted did and plot your solution way in advance :D Estimation and by-the-eye shooting is only done when you don't know a piece of info or the target is moving about wildly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazovnew (Post 1355731)

I agree, noone is suggesting that you should use DoK above some other methods which as stated in the opening part of the tutorial are more accurate; especially taking into account the German TDC.

It was simply a demonstration of DoK which is a proven method of attack. The fact that other solutions (given the advanced german TDC) are more precise and better suited to a given situation, Some of which have been discussed by Gutted and yourself, dosnt devalue DoK. . I accept that it is a little used method in SH5, but a method none the less.