So could you lay out the necessary files and file names and the file paths for something as simple as putting a Uboat in the Baltic and getting it to show up and work in the game?:salute:

Damn forgot the misge
Was something they introduced in SH4 to keep the German campaign seperate from the US - stayed as mis
Noticed the choice to pick your side - allied or axis - in the ME so Axis would save as a misge then

Well I think the docked units are random from the roster as they change every patrol
Though I popped into Amsterdam the other day - late 39 - and there were 3 British and 3 German merchants docked together
lol
Which is worrying
In Bergen all merchants were British

So who knows
Did drop a PM to Dan the dev to see if there was a tutorial knocking about or someone who could answer a few questions but no answer
Guess he is busy bug fixing

I just noticed the allies / axis as well. I am actually very glad they kept this as it will allow MP missions from an allied perspective, as well as SP ones.

Objectives requirement -

In SH3/4 you did not have to have an objective. If there was none present, the game would start and continue indefinitely until the host ended the session or all players quit.

It seems that now if you don't have an objective, the mission will start and after about 30sec or so display the "mission complete" message and terminate.

Is there a "generic" type of objective you guys are using to satisfy this? Some missions in multiplayer form simply do not require objectives. We don't want someone accidentaly sinking "too much" and ending a mission that everyone else is just starting to enjoy after 2hrs investment (IE: Stock Missions)

You can try a cheat
Add in a type of ship not in the mission - say carrier
Put that carrier hundreds of miles away from your mission location and have the objective as sink the carrier
Should never be completed unless campaign has one sail past you

If you do that then the player will have this unachievable (realistically speaking) objective constantly on their screen.

Why would you make a mission without an objective anyway? Obviously you're intending something to happen, why not make that or part of that an objective?

Ok, I've been studying the mission editor (ME) and the campaign system, and it seems pretty complicated. Here's a few things I figured out, sort of :DL

• Stock Campaign Project files (*.pj) are in data\Campaigns\CampaignProjects
• You can open them in ME and access the different missions it contains.
• The missions (*.mis files) are like layers added to the project. They are displayed as a list on the right, and can be filtered for viewing.
• The highlighted mission is the one you will be modifying at the moment.
• New layers can be created (using Add New Mission) or existing ones added (Add Existing Mission)
• Campaign->Edit Campaign will give you options to add Objectives/Macro Objectives. (saved in Campaign.cfg and .tsr files)
• Campaign->Edit Groups will open a tool that allows you define Groups of ships. These are named lists which are used when creating convoys/taskforces/wolfpacks using Nodes. (more on that later)
• Groups are saved in two files: GroupTypes.cfg and GroupTypeDefs.cfg.

NODES:

• There are three node categories. Path, Generator and Spawn.
• Path nodes: Generic waypoint in a sense, connects to other path or generator nodes.
• Generator nodes: These allow you to create entities from the Groups giving them Mission Objectives, such as ReachNode or PatrolNode. Use Right Click on the node->Edit to access this menu.
• Spawn nodes: I think this is used for docked ships. It has no options so not sure how it pulls from the pool of ships.

So we said path and Generator nodes can be connected to form routes to reach places or to determine patrol areas. For example a Generator Node can be in Wilhemshaven (creating a group of three freighters), which has the objective of "ReachNode=Bergen". The many path nodes connected to each other (like highways, streets..) are used to guide this convoy from Wilhems to Bergen. AI Scripting kicks in during voyage for different actions..


EXAMPLE (Adding docked ships in Kiel)

Ok here's what I did.

1. Opened TotalGermany39 project. Created a new mission (layer).
2. File->Add New Misson. Named it "HarborTraffic_PiriReis"
3. Now you can see your new mission on the list, right hand side.
4. Located Kiel on the map and zoomed in. Unfortunately no harbor layout is shown. (Update: It's possible!)
5. But you can see where the Spawn Nodes are placed. (Which btw are in the PlayerBases mission layer.
6. I created a Supply Ship and couple of Uboats docked to it and placed them on top or near a spawn node (which you'll have to delete to prevent overlapping)
7. File->Save Project will save all the files including the new mission you have created. Remember to grap a backup of the whole Campaign folder if you like experimenting!

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/j...xample_me1.png


NOTES:

I checked some of the Campaign projects and improvements are apparent already. Random Patrol groups around enemy harbours are set to Competent crews (which is 3/5 difficulty, they're too easy IMHO)

Ships running wild in harbor, for example in Kiel, could be node placement or the harbor is not deep enough at places, the terrain wasn't leveled properly creating shallow spots entering the canal, making the AI avoid and do silly stuff...

Convoys and their escorts (which are defined in the GroupDefs Tool) will definitely benefit looking over by an experienced campaign designer, like BBW ;)

Lots to explore and understand with these new tools, especially the campaign objectives and how they are tied to each other is complicated as hell. :88)

Thanks piri reis. This is great.:up:

Just wanted to pass a message from Pintea.

Here's how to use the harbor layout in Mission Editor.
Add the data\Terrain\LocationMaps\editor_locations.mis as an "Existing Mission" to your project. This will add many Map Location objects to your project. (Which will overlay the corresponding dds graphics files located in the same folder)

To edit and view these you have to turn on the "Map Locations Edit Mode". And zoom in to observe.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/j...ocations-1.jpg

Piri -

Your contributions to this thread are extremely valued and appreciated.

Please thank Pintea for me as well for his discovery of that additional and not obvious layer to add. Eventually we can form all this information together and contribute to the SH5 Wiki or something like that but for right now this thread is perfect.

Again, THANK YOU for your contributions / discoveries!

Well what we are trying to accomplish with this (and I understand how it sounds a bit odd) is to create multiplayer missions which are centered around the players deciding when the game is over (out of torps, unable to catch up to enemy, etc) and not "Accidentaly" complete an objective and prematurely end the game for all players.

For single player missions this obviously isn't the goal, but for multiplayer you generally want to see the game continue until the players decide to end it. This is a major flaw (in my opinion) with the stock maps. I sank 50,000 tons myself with one torp load because I was the sub that spawned closest to the convoy.

The other players never got a shot in, and the flaw became very apparent.

The message was on the main forum, I think Pintea is one of the developers :06:

Yes we should compile a mission/campaign design doc, once we have enough information.

Now we need to learn how the Spawn Nodes (docked ships) are chosen from the pool of ships of a country.. I think normal Roster Ships w/ docked option enabled could be used instead of the spawn nodes, just like in SH3.

On the other hand, there are some confusions. I placed an extra Uboat sailing out and some planes flying overhead, and they should appear at the start of a mission, in Kiel.. But only my other 3 docked ships show up, no sign of the Uboat or planes.. Still experimenting. :up:

So? The dutch remained neutral until the blitzkrieg in may 1940.

It's not like merchants are allowed to shoot each other in a neutral port. Seems perfectly normal to me.

Brits sailing into a German port is pretty weird though, unless it's right after the war breaks.

Possibly so
Though the lack of anything Dutch was a worry

And that doesnt explain why Bergen in late 39 had all Br merchants and warship patrols
lol
AND after the Dutch have fallen Br ships still sail along the Dutch coastline with really nowhere to go that isnt occupied

Anyway
Piri Reis

Nice observations and great to have them written down
Picked up on a couple of those myself though not the nodes part so nice job
Off to have a look at the Generaters and convoys to see how they work
Will do a write up if figure it out

Maybe this thread should be a sticky as full of interesting information

Really nice information guys!! :yeah:
Hopefully we will have some historical harbour ship population.
One can also have a look into my WAC mod as I spent several months of work to experience docking times of most big battleships. especially the german ones!

greetings
Han

Hi!

Yesterday evening and today I worked a little bit with the ME and the harbour traffic and I experienced some interesting points... at least for the harbour Kiel.

1.Docked ships create an enourmous FPS hit! i.e. 15 added ships approximately 15-20 FPS

2.Until now I found no way to edit the harbour traffic layer... everytime I wanna change something in position, etc, I had to rework with an editor.
But I think this may only be for the moment.

http://s8b.directupload.net/images/1...p/wuzd2leh.jpg


So.. that´s it for now.

greetings
Han

The Nodes system is very powerful and flexible, it's a few clicks to create a one time or periodic convoy from point A to B. Because there are so many Path Nodes already created in the common layer, you can just create your ship group and tell them to go from Kiel to Bergen or Halifax to Alexandria.

I'm not definitely sure but I think the Spawn Nodes that are used for docked ships, interact with a close-by Generator Node. This way, if there is a convoy with the SchleswigHolstein included, that is going from Kiel to Danzig, the SchleswigHolstein will be spawned as a docked ship..
I've seen this happen a few times. So it looks like, the pool of ships include ships due to sail..

There is one problem I'm running across though. The ships are not following their waypoints very cleverly. This is the reason they are sailing like drunkards in ports. For example none can enter the kiel canal correctly. I just don't understand this, because they seem to be going ok once inside the canal...

I tried some single missions with ships to enter and exit the canal locks, they all find somewhere to run into and go into a forward/reverse cycle! Simple waypoint following seems broken, they turn too early for the next waypoint, or they skip it all together. (I have at least 1km between each waypoint..)

Must be missing something..

Piri -

Run said tests WHILE you have the AI Script debugger running. You should see verbose feedback on which autoroutines (scripts) the AI is using to exhbit the behavior.

For example they should be using a "collision avoidance" autoroutine if what you suspect is true.

I have experienced the same thing you are experiencing with my multiplayer map "Gibraltar Surface Run". The fleets are supposed to follow certain waypoints, but once they get radar contact on each other they completely ignore the waypoints and start exhibiting ridiculous behavior.

In my case both fleets turn away from eachother and start steaming at full speed in the oppisite directions, ignoring all waypoints. I am going to debug the AI on that later but just haven't had time.

Stupid bronchitis got me so sick i can barely work muchless mod.....

So does this mean that the docked ships won't join the respective convoy and get underway though? A docked ship does not move if I recall correctly.

The generator node spawns it? Or does the spawn node?

Yes a Generator Node spawns groups of ships which have objectives(Reach or Patrol other node) The ships will just pop up in the game from nothingness and presumably start sailing to their next waypoint. (Connected with Path Nodes)
* There seems to be a bug with this too, If two different ship group spawn at the same time, they get stuck together.. :x

A Spawn Node, seems to be used for docked ships. This draws from some ship pool which we don't know the details. But as I said, I've seen ships that are due to depart tomorrow, docked in the yards. Once the right time comes, they disappear from their Spawn Node spots, and pop up at their Generator Node location..

----

I've gone through all of the AI Scripts, hoping to catch what was throwing off their navigation...
Implementation seems logical enough, it should work.. :hmmm: