Wait, they had testers to being with? :o

Another ridiculous comparison.

I don't necessarily agree with him, but his points do have merit.

Do you have anything besides ridicule to counter his argument?

No... I'm pretty sure it's about the same thing.

So I seriously hope that all the posters who are praising the developers are copping the same ridicule as cherbert? I mean, by the opposing logic here (or lack thereof) it seems that it's OK to praise the devs for the good stuff but not OK to criticise the devs for the bad stuff. :doh:

It's like:
GOOD FEATURE: Well done devs! You rock! Despite the bad "suits" telling you what to do!!!
BAD FEATURE: Don't blame the devs, it's the bad "suits" fault for not <insert excuse here>

Give me a break. Coders code. Publishers publish.

All those blaming the "suits" for rushing the game only need to look at Storm of War: Battle of Britain to see how little water the argument holds.

I know that they are the first in line to blame, the devs, and I remember when I've had the guts to say that loud and clear even before the game was released I was banned. It was obvious from the previews that the game will be a real flop. If they are putting in front of us the pathetic excuse of "not having the required time", it just won't stand. If they would had some self respect, in that moment they would have resigned and go to Spain to pick up strawberries for living, better than sell themselves and their beliefs so easily. But I am not sure they have this kind of Knights Of The Round Table principles to be driven off ... They are supposed to be creators of something reliable, and if they are not allowed to do that in a proper way, they should resign with dignity. I am Romanian, the devs are also Romanian and when I tell you that my people have some problems when it's about having healthy principles I am not lying you. And I am saying that with great sadness but I am trying to be as objective as possible.
I am not naive, things are not what they seem to be or the way they should be. The man is the most perverted animal on earth.

Very poor analogy.

I buy my kitchen equipment from Kmart. If any of it falls apart, by your logic, Kmart is to blame as the authorised seller, when in fact the responsibility to fix is with the manufacturer (heck, they give me a warranty just for this reason).

And here's the flaw in your logic...who are we asking to produce patches? the devs? or the publisher? Who will code the patches? the devs? or the publisher? If the patches fix bugs, who will we thank? the devs? or the publisher?

The devs are the first to blame, JScones
And now they are hiding themselves behind that "We are not allowed to interfere with the mortals now due to the nature of our job or of our contracts with Almighty UBI ...".
And NOBODY here has the right to tell you what to say about the devs. YOU made a lot of things for FREE, from your heart, they did everything for money. And what you did is more reliable, than what they did.

To be fair, the bug with the deck gun is not a bug at all, but rather that you have no morale when giving the order (it requires it). It's easy to fix, just remove morale by editing the crew abilities text file (where it exists exactly escapes me at the moment).

Again?

"Again" what? Do you feel embarrassed that I am in the position to tell everyone that sometimes some people make me feel ashamed that I am Romanian? Or I suppose you want to provoke me, and to end up being banned, like I was before because of you. No, you won't have the chance to see that. I will be very careful for what I will say, I will carefully choose my words not to hurt your human dignity, but still to hit the "G" spot.
Maybe at that time most people here gave you much more credit that you actually deserved, but now, that we are seeing the results of your work, I guess you are starting to lose your supporters, little by little.

Note: for all of those that are not aware who elanaiba is: he is one of the devs.

Again, you are accusing "us" that we are hiding as demigods, etc.

And you are assuming a lot about what we did, and what we did it FOR.

Frankly, you have no idea of all the stuff that I did for the series.

OK, you are probably one of those who are not hiding so much. But do you gave the guts to say that your product is unfinished, it's very buggy and it was very prematurely released? Just talking about the objective facts, not the subjective ones, like the interface, RPG elements etc. If you will do that, I promise that I won't criticize your game anymore.
Yes, I know, you are not supposed to talk about these kind of things ... UBI contracts and so.
And by the way, maybe you should better start work at the patches, I think that would be more constructive, don't you think?

From what I've read and hope misread , then the Devs are as much to blame as Ubi "suits".

As far as I've read in some reviews on this site , you can't order the rudder through x degrees of turn 1/2/3 to Port or starboard.

That is a basic part of any build of a ship/uboat sim, if that is true , then the devs are to blame or are we to believe that they didn't know it was missing like other things in the sim ..

Or are they reading these posts on here saying , I thought you put it in , no I thought you were doing that !

Come on , the devs knew exactly what they had put in and left out , for something as basic to operating the uboat, it really was a dereliction of duty.

To blame the Ubi suits for something as basic as that, something that should have been one of the first items laid down in code, as its one of boats base operating functions, does not wash with me.

Dan, while you are here, maybe you can tell us only if you are at liberty to do so: who's responsible for game content? the development house or the publishing house? More specifically, how much freedom do publishers give developers, or conversely, how constrained do publishers make things for developers? I would expect the publisher to drive schedule to a degree, but choosing what specific features are in or out, is that the publishers role or the devs role (to manage according to available schedule)? Do the publishers ever get to the level of specifics such as "TDC must be included"?

Generally speaking I mean - not specifically Ubisoft because I don't want you to get into trouble with anyone. Just broad industry "norm" based on your experience over the years.

Serious question, because I don't know the answer.

Guys, let's stop the finger-pointing and personal attacks. It doesn't get us anywhere. What have we got to gain from it? Gunnodayak: I don't know why you are so persistent in trying to present 'the truth about the game' here, but why must you insist on making this forum a platform to launch personal attacks? It's clear that you don't own the game nor have interest in it. Is it really productive for you to go on and continue baiting certain members into offended responses, only to act like you've been insulted afterwards? It's not fair to the community and, taken past a certain point (where it can and should count as fair criticism), simply does nothing but sour the tone of discussion and make everyone mad at each other. In the case of causing animosity between players and game developers here, it's especially counter productive.


So in short,
:timeout:

No, I am deeply sorry if you or anyone believes that I like to do personal attacks, and please, don't start again with that "you don't own the game", I really wish now that I would not have the game.
It seems this "you like to do personal attacks" routine is being applied when somebody is saying his opinion loud and clear. I am just very very dissapointed of what turned out to be this game, and maybe a little more than the majority, and that is because they are Romanians, my kind. And that would have been one good chance to make me feel proud of that. But they didn't. Is this a personal attack ? It's just a big feeling of dissapointement.

Please tell me, what is productive then? To praise them even if they don't deserved that? For what we should do that? Why? I really don't understand your need to "defend" them. Why don't you let'em defend themselves?
Let's separate these things: the DRM issue is UBI responsibility only, while the game itself belongs solely to the dev team.

From what I've seen so far, your team had done a great job on visuals and scripting in SH5. But many other things (including keyboard commands to access the stations, change course, etc) are broken.

I clearly understand that your team is very dependent on publisher and their decisions. Please, fix the annoying bugs mentioned by topicstarter and I'll promise to buy the game immediately.

Developing and nurturing a blame culture can only be counter productive.

Far better to post in a 'constructive criticism' context.

I feel I can understand how emotive such topics can become but anything getting even close to personal ridicule is totally unnaceptable and should be discouraged IMHO.

I'm not taking sides or pointing towards any of the individual posters on this thread, nor do I have any wish to become embroiled in this subject but would respectfully ask that we all demonstrate a modicum of respect and polite understanding of the individuals viewpoints here.

I just want to make it clear I think SH5 is very impressive and very immersive. I love it I desperately want it to be fixed.

My initial message was basically to request more feedback from the devs that the problems will be sorted out. We have had nothing apart from a patch that seems to have broken more than it fixed.

I don't regret buying it. I am just worried at the moment about the sheer amount of things that need fixing - in some ways there is more to be fixed here than SH4 needed.