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- - Why is the boat dark grey on the inside? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos (Post 1281940)

People that Pan Das Boot must remember that the captain of the ACTUAL U-96 was on set during the filming. Something tells me the word of an actual war time commander of these boats would bear far more than us rivet counters.

Requirements of film massively outweigh anything else due to broadcast standards. It wouldn't have mattered if the U-Boats were painted sky blue pink, with tartan, if it didn't look good on film, it wouldn't have been shot that way. The human eye has an amazing HDR, the camera does not.

You're forgetting that even the author of 'Das Boot' had series criticisms of the film and... well, he was there! Whose word would you take in that case - someone who was there or someone who wasn't? :hmmm:

Bottom line... Das Boot is not a historical document, it's an entertainment product to entertain us. Nothing more. You cannot draw inference of reality from things depicted in it.

Hello all, I rarely post but thought I might have something to add to this discussion. Ubootwaffe painting instructions standarized the colors of uboat hull interiors. The instructions called for the upper half to be painted RAL 9001 Elfenbeinweiss (Ivory White) and the lower hull half to be painted RAL 9002 Grauweiss (Grey White). One has to be careful using U995 as an example for interior colors, both because it was used and repainted in areas by the Norwegian Navy before it was sold to Germany and because of inaccuracies in interpeting historical records when the uboat was repainted in the early 1980's. U505, on the other hand, was very accurately repainted when it underwent its major restoration 6 or so years ago.

Ernest

You should post more often Ernest :DL. You'll make those of us that don't know anything look bad, but that's OK :yeah:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greif8 (Post 1281964)

An excellent informative post....my pictures, not being in colour, prevent me from deciding, but your post makes it easier to come to a conclusion....cheers http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis (Post 1281949)

Criticism by novel author Buchheim

Quote:

Buchheim himself was a U-boat correspondent. He has stated that the following film scenes are unrealistic:
In the film, an unidentified member of the crew throws an oil-stained towel into Lt. Werner's face. As a Lieutenant, Werner would have commanded special respect and in reality, the culprit would have been court-martialed and received a hefty sentence.
The crew behaves far too loudly during patrols; the celebrations after getting a torpedo hit were described as unprofessional. For example, after surviving a bombing, the crew celebrate loudly in their bunks, even with a sailor dressing up as a woman in a red-lit room.

Even though overwhelmed by the literally perfect technological accuracy of the film's set-design and port construction buildings, novel author Lothar-Günter Buchheim expressed great disappointment with Petersen's adaptation in a film review[3] published in 1981, especially with Petersen's aesthetic vision for the film and the way the plot and the effects are, according to him, overdone and clichéd by the adaptation. As well he criticised the hysterical over-acting of the cast, which he called highly unrealistic, while acknowledging the cast's acting talent in general. Buchheim, after several attempts for an American adaptation had failed, had provided a script detailing his own narrative, cinematographical and photographical ideas as soon as Petersen was chosen as new director. It would have amounted in full to a complete 6-hour epic; however Petersen turned him down because at the time the producers were aiming for a 90-minute feature for international release. Ironically, today's Director's Cut of Das Boot amounts to over 200 minutes, and the complete TV version of the film to roughly 5 hours long.

Buchheim attacked specifically what he called Petersen's sacrificing of both realism and suspense in dialogue, narration, and photography for the sake of cheap dramatic thrills and action effects (for example, in reality one single exploding bolt of the boat's pressure hull would have been enough for the whole crew to worry about the U-boat being crushed by water pressure, while Petersen has several bolts loosening in various scenes).

Uttering deep concerns about the end result, Buchheim felt that unlike his clearly anti-war novel the adaptation was "another re-glorification and re-mystification"[3] of the German WWII U-boat war, German heroism and nationalism. He called the film a cross between a "cheap, shallow American action flick"[3] and a "contemporary German propaganda newsreel from World War II".[3]

Is that you Thor?
The Croatian bomber?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum (Post 1282012)

Is that you Thor?
The Croatian bomber?

I thought you have put two and two together already :D

Nice to see you mate. :) I've been playing SH4 lately, the only thing that runs on my broken PC. So I visit these forums often lately.

buchheim complained about many things...in the film. and he was really upset and angry about the cinema version of the movie.

but later, as he had seen the full length version, he was astonished to the realistic setting and play of the actors. he felt like send back 40 years...even some scenes never would have happened that way the movie shows them. not only the oil towel scene was mentioned, also the screaming of the crew during dc waves, the way the kaleun listens on the headphones to the contacts, etc.

but all in all, he was more lucky than upset with the final version. this all can be found in the book "searching for the crew of u96 (die suche nach der crew von u96)" http://www.amazon.de/Das-Boot-Suche-...7224672&sr=8-1 a book following the exhibition of "das boot" in the german movie museum in 2007. very interesting, to read notes from all sides of the crew, in front of and behind the camera.

Nothing beats the actual German wartime building specs...

From the Allegmeinen building regulations No. 31, edition March 1940
From the Allegmeinen building regulations No. 31, edition July 1944

In German, but I'm sure someone can translate better than Babelfish.

You can match it to the RAL colour card here... http://www.themeter.net/ral_e.htm

It seems...shock horror...that...shock...Das Boot may be...shock...wrong... Yeah, yeah, I know, impossible, but still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones (Post 1282044)

Just posted those links then saw you had
lmao
:yeah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones (Post 1282044)

It seems...shock horror...that...shock...Das Boot may be...shock...wrong... Yeah, yeah, I know, impossible, but still...

Blasphemy! Repent now or be excommunicated and branded an infidel! :haha:

Bow to the one true god!

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/ubootw/m...ster-cover.jpg http://dbcgroups.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/bowing.jpg

If anyone is interested I can translate and post Section a, which deals with interior colors, of the document(s) that JScones posted. This is an important document that is mostly accurate and very helpful to determining correct colors. It also illustrates a few of the pitfalls researchers have to watchout for when using primary source documents as references. For example, the two rightmost columns in the 1940 document states: 2 Coats of fire resistant color RAL 9003 Ivory White.

RAL 9003 is actually Signal White, a very white shade. Why the mistake? Well there is no definitive answer, but IMHO I think the original translation had a mistake in it, very easy to make with some of the original German documents from WWII as they were in what was known as Frakturschrift, which can be hard to make out in older documents.

As an aside, as I am sure more then a few people are wondering how I happen to know something about this rather arcane subject, I am currently building the CMK interior sets for a 1/72 scale Type VIIc build. I spent a few months doing research and as luck would have it I was able to look at many original documents in the Military Archives in Germany.

Ernest

Dougie Martindale did a document about Kriegsmarine paint specs:

http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsw...57/paint.shtml

This link talks about the interior a bit:

http://events.nace.org/library/artic...ures/uboat.asp

Hi LiveGoat, Dougie did a great job on his document dealing with uboat colors, though his document covers mostly exterior colors. Understandable, as that document is was written a a reference for modellers. I post fairly frequently over on Dougie and Wink Guise's forum, and have talked with both of them about this very topic. Always informative and interesting!

Your second link describes the research and repainting process that Keith Gill's team did while refurbishing U505. As a result of their outstanding work U505 is the "gold standard" for what a uboat most likely looked during WWII. The link is a very good one.

Ernest

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveGoat (Post 1282127)

SHIV Gato ( USS Drum ) Modded interior:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...irlrightup.jpg

Looks better than the SHV shots.

Well of course, it's American.

So you all are saying that the presence of THE actual war time Commander of U-96 would not know the color of his own damn boat?

As far as Buchiem bitching about Das Boot, Have you all not read the novel? Yes as with any literary work stuff is left out, but the parts that are in the film ARE IN THE NOVEL, including the screaming crew!!!

Read the novel, it is in there. The brooding captain...in there, the boisterous crew at the hit of a torpedo...IN THERE!!!

In Iron Coffins, Werner describes the interior of the first boat he saw as Wood paneled and GRAY!!!.

Perhaps there were several schemes used over the course of the war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos (Post 1285297)

Calm down! Buchheim also took a lot of photos in the war. On these photos it can be seen, that the uboat was ivory-colored (or white because of the black/white photos).

I have since seen German propaganda films, and the interior of the boats seem to vary, it is possible one yard did things differently than the other. It is possible U-96 had a grey interior, and the boat Buchiem took pictures on other than 96 had the white interior.

LOL three pages of rant on the color of paint and its already been modded... Priceless ! :haha: