SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - VIIB with VIIC conning tower?

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- - VIIB with VIIC conning tower? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=162311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681 (Post 1277917)

Outstanding idea. Can you ask him?

done. sent him a PM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo12 (Post 1277896)

Here you go, scanned from David Westwood's book:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7218/viicproof.jpg

A net cutter and deck gun wave beakers. Nice. :)

If only we had an option to mount / dismount them per Kaleun's desire in the game...

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681 (Post 1277850)

flakmonkey said he has some pics of it.

Well i have to concede defeat on this one, after looking through 1000+ uboat pics i had no luck, although i did spot a few VIIbs with non standard towers and indeed a VIIc with what looked more like a VIIb tower but no VIIcs with the net cutter. Im still almost certain ive seen a pic of one somewhere, maybe i imagined it!

After browsing through this thread, I have found some pictures of type VIIC with net cutters and wave breakers, although the majority of them are without:

Wave breakers on U-201:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1127/u201.jpg

Wave breakers and net cutters on U-205:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/722...euinconnus.jpg

EDIT: Some more VIIC pictures:

Net cutters on U-551:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2070/u551ensurface.jpg

Wave breakers (I think) on U-560:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1347/u560.jpg

More details on net cutters, breakwaters and wind deflectors from the same thread:

Quote:

Net cutters (parts 111 to 114)
Two net cutters were present at the bow of the very earliest VIICs - one on the deck and the other below the waterline on the stem. On 1st March 1941 the order remove the net cutters was issued. As a result, most of the net cutters were removed in March and April 1941.
However, the net cutters were not removed from all boats in this period. For example, U 96 still had net cutters when arriving back from patrol on the 22nd May 1941. Similarly, U 94 still had net cutters when returning from patrol on the 4th June 1941. U 94 had been in port throughout March, and again for 11 days in April. But there are a variety of reasons why the net cutters were not removed from U 94 during these two periods. One reason may have been the necessity to get the boat back to sea as quickly as possible.
Opinions on whether the lower net cutter was removed at the same time as the upper net cutter vary. Some hold that the lower one may have been left in place (too difficult to remove cheaply and easily), while others hold the view that both would have been removed at the same time.
Some or all of the earliest VIICs built at Germaniawerft (U 69 to U 72, and U 93 to U 98) had the lower net cutters when launched, but not the S-G. Certainly this was the case with U 70. Presumably the S-G device was fitted to U 70 and others when it became available. Fitting the S-G may have meant removing the lower net cutter.

Breakwaters (parts 115 & 116)
The earliest VIICs all had breakwaters fitted to the top of the hull casing to protect the 88mm deck gun crews from waves. It appears that the process of removing the breakwaters usually occurred during the April/May/June 1941 period. Prior to this the breakwaters were generally present, while after this they were generally absent.
A pattern of small, round free-flooding holes usually replaced the breakwaters. This was intended to help the boat dive slightly faster, but any improvement must have been marginal. Some boats, and indeed all of the late war VIICs and VIIC/41s, did not have any holes in this area at all.

Wind deflector (parts 121 or 124)
Another modification was the wind deflector. Fitted around the outside edge of the top of the tower, this flange was intended to block some of the wind and spray that hit the lookouts’ faces. Note that this wind defector is not to be confused with the spray defector that featured halfway up the tower on every VIIC.
The earliest VIICs did not have the wind deflector. The process of fitting this feature seems to have been between December 1940 and December 1941 or so – a far greater time period than the process of removing the net cutters or breakwaters. One of the first boats to be fitted with this feature was U 69: it was present during the boat’s commissioning ceremony on the 2nd November 1940. Other early examples of boats with the wind deflector are U 651 (December 1940), U 71 or U 72 (January 1941), U 69 (March 1941) and U 96 (April 1941). But most boats during this period did not have this feature. It began to appear very slowly throughout the course of 1941. By July 1941, U 203 and U 701 did not have this feature. U 201 did not have the wind deflector in July either, and may not even have had this in September 1941. Nor did U 559 have this feature by late October 1941, while U 564 appears not to have had a wind deflector in November 1941. Unusually, the VIIB U 73 did not even have this feature in September 1942, but this appears to be an exception. By 1942 it was almost universally present.
Generally speaking, therefore, the wind deflector appeared as early as November 1940 but was still not present on some boats in November 1941.

Combinations on popular boats
Net cutters = nc, breakwaters = bw, wind deflector = wd

U 96 –
1st Aug 1940 nc-yes bw-yes wd-no
Apr-May 1941 nc-yes bw-no wd-yes
27th Oct 1941 nc-no bw-no wd-yes
Note that the combination featured on U 96 in April and May 1941 (4th patrol) was quite unusual.

U 201 –
7th Dec 1940 nc-yes bw-yes wd-no
Jan-May 1941 nc-no bw-yes wd-no
Jun-Aug 1941 nc-no bw-no wd-no
Later in 1941 nc-no bw-no wd-yes

U 552 -
14th Sep 1940 nc-yes bw-yes wd-no
1941 nc-no bw-yes wd-no
Later in 1941 nc-no bw-no wd-yes
The addition of the wind defector to U 552 may have occurred during the same refit as the removal of the breakwaters or, as in the case of U 201, during a later refit.

Prien's U47 VIIb has a tower like a VIIc, there is no cut on the basis thus the fact that the in game VIIb is not like the b in silent Hunter III is a no problem for me.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florent (Post 1278048)

Prien's U47 VIIb has a tower like a VIIc, there is no cut on the basis thus the fact that the in game VIIb is not like the b in silent Hunter III is a no problem for me.:D

I dont want to sound like the old one here. But u-47 was a VIIA. Also sh-III did indeed have the correct VIIB

http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost...edium/u-47.jpg

Perhaps its unrealistic, but hell it sure looks 100% better then the Real VIIB tower :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReFaN (Post 1278104)

Perhaps its unrealistic, but hell it sure looks 100% better then the Real VIIB tower :D

In that case why not have an m1a1 turret with a 120mm smootbore gun , laser range finder and ballistic computer insted of the historical deck gun in sh-5. That would look so much cooler!:haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681 (Post 1278106)

In that case why not have an m1a1 turret with a 120mm smootbore gun , laser range finder and ballistic computer insted of the historical deck gun in sh-5. That would look so much cooler!:haha:

Perhaps a modder can do this?

:woot:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReFaN (Post 1278109)

Perhaps a modder can do this?
:woot:

Didn't the devs already take care of the laser range finder?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681 (Post 1278093)

I dont want to sound like the old one here. But u-47 was a VIIA...

Not true: http://www.uboat.net/boats/u47.htm

Though, if you look here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=149950&page=2

some VIIB's had VIIA tower, or so it seems...

But it is easy to confuse them as in early days they didn't have spray defectors fitted on their conning towers.

In the books and Wikipedia U47 is an early VII b it doesn't have also a stern torpedo with bulge typial of VIIa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florent (Post 1278127)

In the books and Wikipedia U47 is an early VII b it doesn't have also a stern torpedo with bulge typial of VIIa.

What Books? And wikipedia?

Type VIIB U45-55, 4 bow tubes; 1 stern tube!
The type seven B main diferences from the type seven, that after B was denominated A, was the internal stern tube, diffrent conning tower shape; the flak gun being in the tower, and the improved range, fuel capacity, etc; that I can not remember at this time.

I do believe that is what Florent said Rhodes. :)

Wikipedia : unterseeboot type VII
I have an Orbis publishing of the 1984-86 Weapons Encyclopedia about Axis Submarine. And an Heimdal book about submarine, in both U47 is a type b or early type b.
On propaganda films on youtube about U47, when you can look at the stern, there is no indication of a type A stern (a bulge). Only VIIa had this bulge.

Sorry to argue with you Oscar19681 but Priens U-47 was a type VIIB. Check on u boat.net. Grrrr I've done it again, sorry folks but I make the mistake of not reading the rest of the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat (Post 1277903)

Neal has a copy. Maybe we could prevail upon him to post screenshots of the different in-game models so we can compare them.

Seems in NEAL,s "Farewell, old friend"" video it is already shown that the VIIB u-boat seen though the scope does seem to have the wrong conning tower. Unless ofcourse its a VIIC with a wire cutter. But i doubt it and i think this is the way the VIIB is modeled in sh-5 . At least in the preview version it is. Lets hope they fixed this for the final version or in an upcomming patch. Otherwise offer us a VIIB in the game if it looks exaclty like the VIIC model but only with a wire-cutter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TH0R (Post 1278116)

some VIIB's had VIIA tower, or so it seems...

But it is easy to confuse them as in early days they didn't have spray defectors fitted on their conning towers.

+100000!!!:yep:

I cannot understand why UBI commit such errors in the presence of a considerable quantity of archival documents, photos and drawings? It is simply silly!

Where VIIB tower??? Why VIIC tower does not correspond to the original??? Why???!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681 (Post 1278106)

In that case why not have an m1a1 turret with a 120mm smootbore gun , laser range finder and ballistic computer insted of the historical deck gun in sh-5. That would look so much cooler!:haha:

Grrrrr!

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6189/turretshot.jpg