No need for name calling.

Catholicism and the history of Catholicism are two very different things.
even the Catholic church has changed a lot since it was a part of the
Roman empire. It has even changed since last year and will do so
indefinitely.

Catholicism today is not it's history and it is not the bible.
If a Martian had only a copy of the bible, he would learn very little about
Catholicism and would likely guess a great many false things about it.

The same is true should a Martian try to learn about modern Islam from
the Quran or today's Judaism from the Torah.

A religion is the belief system/values held by the body of it's practitioners.

the problem is not our attitude. The problem is Islam's inhumane, intolerant values, and it'S fundamental hostility towards other ciltures, and women. You can weasel as much as you want and relabel Western self-deception as it's precious "self criticism". You can offend all victims of islam that suffered so miserably from it, and offend all women trying to escape from it, and can excuse the ongoing mass killing of infidels by pointing out that a thiousand years ago the crusades were like uislam still is today - you can do all that, as long as you still have the freedom to form your opinion, even if it is simply ignoring the facts. that is the freedom ou have been given by living in our coutnries, the freedom that you value so low and throw away so carelessly by inviting it's enemies and encouraging them and ennobling them.

This your freedom that you use withio9ut even noticing it - this freedom is what Islam detests most.

What really is to be criticised is not criticism of Islam, but Islam'S values. They are a problem, becasue they are strictly against those values that we have anchored in our own cultures and constitutions, after our forefathers fought to achieve them in centuries of bitter fights and miserable suffering.

And you give it away headlessly - and even be proud of doing so. You should feel ashamed.

:nope:

Ah, an Islam thread, I've been waiting for one of these to pop up again. Makes a change from Obama I suppose :hmmm:

Yup, I guess those two are the staple diet of this forum. :ping:

Nothing wrong with that. Semi-respectful discussions about the things people are passionate about are good for society, despite controversy.

OK guys, I'm keeping an eye on this.

Skybird, no name calling even if it is just to call someone a fool. This is a hot topic and can get out of hand very quickly.

I do not see it as "semi-respectful" anyway. Detemined: yes, maybe sharp, but not personally hurting.

For Letum and anybody feeling concerned, i just have asked Xabba about possible language differences between German and English, when using word like Narr and närrisch (fool, foolish). From my perspective, and from my honest experience in life and when watching TV, calling the actor of a "närrisch" deed or speech as "närrisch" or a "Narr" is no big deal in German,
and depending on the context of the conversation sometimes is leaning more to a matter-of-fact side, as a description, sometimes more to a very mild form of rethoric fingerpointing at a given person.

I called Letum a fool, and I still think he is foolish in his thinking on the matter, yes. But it is not as if I wished to aim a personal insult or offence at him by doing so. And it is not as if I have copied Pat's language here: I did not call anybody a "useful idiot" (or "useful fool") here. ;)

I will apologise for things where I have been wrong, and my record shows that I indeed did so in the past on repeated occasions where I went wrong. But not here, because I cannot see that I failed somewhere - not with regard to Islam, and not with regard to Letum.

I was being tongue-in-cheek when I wrote "semi-respectful". I pretty much meant "sharp" and "determined".

On topic, though, I do agree with your assessment on Islam. The unfortunate truth is that the texts so deeply embedded within the religion must actually be misinterpretted to prevent out-and-out condemnation of Islam by most of the modern civilized world.

Which I find particularly amusing...especially when you consider that Islam is not a "race" to begin with....silly liberals and their emotional name calling...

Here's a couple of vids for Skybird, part 1 and part 2. :)

I don't understand the German, but I am experiencing mustache envy.

Yea I can see why. :DL Btw, the German they speak isn't necessarily grammatically correct. The Herr Kommissar just kinda reminds me of Skybird, if you watch the second vid you'll see that he also tends to put a couple too many sweeteners in his coffee if you know what I mean.

I understand the German, and I've just had a shave :DL