This is a non issue really. First and foremost 99% of windows pc are sold with an oem license and guess what, its the OEM that will install a browser on the system before selling it to the consumer. And you want to guess WHICH browser they will choose ? Of course IE. As for the 1% of consumers that buy a retail license and install the operating system themselves, well I guess they are tech savy enough to have a copy of firefox or another browser on some usb pen, usb drive or floppy disc. Non issue at 100%.
The real problem, is that by unboundling IE from windows and putting the choice on the OEM, for the consumer there is really no choice at all.
Its like Henry Ford once said : "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black".
The EU comission has to enforce that browser choice be made available from within the operating system itself. Its the customer that has to choose which browser to use upon installation, and not the OEM deciding for him/her because we all know what they will choose. Microsoft had to comply with the EU comission decision, instead they took matters into their own hands to make a go-around the EU. I hope the EU fines them to death. Micorosoft is a company that deserves no respect, its like a bully defying continously the law.
There will be a time, when they step one step too far.

Why would whoever is selling the OEM always choose IE, given the choice?

There have been lots of times MS went a step too far. I can still see Gates rockin back and forth in that courtroom chair. I actually felt sorry for him when I saw that, such a sad sight...

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...utistic-p1.php
Because that's what people are familiar with. It's just the most obvious choice.

Because having IE installed means no compatibility problems with the OS, the programs and of course web sites. Some services such as STEAM require IE.
And its not the only one. So you see that from a customer oriented point of view the OEM really has no choice as to what browser install.
And thats precisely the reason that Microsoft shifted the choice on the OEM, ignoring the EU complaints. Pretty devilish is you ask me, but the EU will come even harder on Microsoft.

Okay, but then it is still a free choice by the consumer if they chose to download IE instead of Firefox or Chrome or whatever.

If Firefox or Chrome want their's to be downloade, they have to make them more attractive. It is not microft's moral obligation to do their work for them, it just needs to accept the obligation to give them the needed infomation so that Mozilla and Google can make their browers working in a Microsoft Windows environment. It is the other competitor's job to make their products attractive enough so that they are compatible. And if they are not attractive for a wide audience, the EU should not force them down people's throat nevertheless by demanding Microsoft to distribute the rivalling products by Mozilla and Google.

They are competing - not cooperating. The EU does not seem to know the difference here.

The problem is that even if they are more attractive, IE still has an advantage.

On the contrary!
The EU is ensuring that they are competing; that the best product wins,
not just the product that is shipped out with other software.

Heck, I don't understand your problem. Microsoft has agreed not to bundle Explorer with Windows anymore. Have you even realised that?

The psychological advantage that people use Explorer for reasons of laziness and comfort, is gone (and for all Firebird and Opera and Chrome users it has been a questionable argument anyway, since longer time). All three products now line up at the starting line, at equal terms. People see them, weigh them, make their choice, download for free the one they want, and install it.

What else do you want...?

If people still prefer Explorer over the others, than this must not be your or the EU's concern. I would, for example, prefer Explorer nevertheless. and I do not see any problem at all to download it and install it. I do download a lot of additonal programs of my choice when installing, and I download updates several times a week.

I do not expect or demand Microsoft to actively distribute the competing products of their rivals. It violates common economic sense to demand that. equality of chances is what it is about - and this has been acchieved. Now it is up to Chrome and Mozilla to use their chances. They are free to fail, too. And if they fail, it is not the EU's job to compensate for that.

You have lost me!
That is what I want....I was under the impression you where against that.

No its not. You don't understand it do you.
The situation Microsoft has created with this decision doesn't change a iota as far as the consumer is regarded. It has been the same situation for the last decade, pretty much the reason Microsoft was first investigated by the EU.
The real game changer (and the reason Microsoft doesn't want to comply) is to have a screen that offers the consumer a choice as to what browser to install before the installation of the OS is complete.

You simply don't understand the reason Microsoft was first investigated and found guilty. If Microsoft had never bundled at 0 cost IE with Windows and AT THE SAME TIME bullied OEMs to not install third party browsers there wouldn't be a problem. The most viable browser would have survived. As we all know thats not what happened and as a result we have a heavily crippled web that just in the last 2-3 years has started slowly very slowly to heal itself from Microsoft proprietary crap. This in and of itself doesn't not excuse the original actions made by Microsoft 10 years ago.

You hit the head on the nail. You beat me to this post.

Now a lot of lawmakers are going to get beat up because of this simple oversight. Microsoft will not be the loser in all this, the European people will.

You guys are just so smart over there! :D Opinionated to the point where you become useless.

-S

The head on the....? nevermind.

Anyway, read through the posts and you will find the answer to that question.

Man I wonder if IQ has taken a plunge recently reading some comments.
Joe Sixpack WILL NOT HAVE TO INSTALL A BROWSER, the pc will already come with one, preinstalled by the oem.
Whats so difficult to grasp about it ?
People who buy retail and install the operating system are a niche, a tech savy niche to whom this new disposition doesn't constitute a problem.
You guys are creating a problem from thin air.

You assume too much.

-S

No I don't.
And for the simple reason that Microsoft has already stated that by unboundling IE from windows, they will give the oem the choice which browser to install, and for retail they will offer a cd at 0 cost that will contain IE. Now tell me exactly where is the problem for Joe Sixpack or even for a tech savy consumer.

It makes no difference weather windows ships with IE or not. People will download and use their prefered browser either way. It's not like windows is blocking access to third party browsers. It has always been up to the user which sofware they want on their system. The EU need not waste time and resources on this :nope:

Well, if you put it like that. :roll:

From reading the first post this wasn't exactly clear; browser provided by OEM or disc at 0 cost, but that may have been an oversight on my part.

You got to admit that it is the first question that enters the mind when you hear Win will come without a browser. Even though the answer is simple enough, it's a legitimate question IMHO. ;)

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1...9663073,00.htm

If only I knew what is so difficult in understanding this.

:rotfl:

That's the first time you provided a link to the source, and you ask what's difficult to understand about it?

*Anyway, to quote J.P. Gownder in that article: "The whole thing is pretty silly"
I agree, asking MS to distribute rivaling products with Windows is ridiculous. :down:

I am not speaking from the OEM standpoint. They will load the machine properly.

I'm talking about from the end user that wants to try and upgrade his own machine with limited knowledge. You assume they are all techies. They are not. They will of course get a quick education on why its a good idea to have a default browser on their system. Every OS comes with a browser. Even text based browsers like lynx for text based OS's.

Basically how stupid the EU government is can be summed up in that even for the knowledgeable, you just created extra steps. Extra work for everyone, OEM's included. You also just made it harder if not impossible for the person who wants to learn to take care of his own system too. Typical of the EU these days. Legislate without knowing the whole story. They legislate on a feel good scenario.

-S

So if Apple reaches a certain market share % in Europe, will they be forced to pull Safari from their OS as it ships? And what is that market share %?

PD