Go home? Where did i write that? I meant opening the west front as stopping any serious resistance and letting the allies occupy Germany while throwing all material to the East Front holding up the russians as long as possible. The outcome of the war could not be changed anymore but it was still possible for Germany to influence how far the russians could march into Central Europe by diverting the forces in France and Italy to the East ...
Never wrote that too - opening the front means letting the Allies in ...
Churchill at least hadn't much sympathy for the russians anymore (if he really ever had). The parts of East Germany which became part of the russian zone were traded in for West Berlin. If the western allied would have originally captured Berlin this deal wouldn't be necessary, yes? Maybe the west would have traded East Berlin for parts of East Prussia or Poland then but this is something that couldn't be influenced anymore.

GT forum, summer 2007, on german movies made about Stauffenberg:

That material had been given in an in-depth documentation that was broadcasted last year.

Carotio probably is right. Ignoring the latest historian's reassessements of the figure of stauffenberg, the German film from 2004 probably is the best you can see so far.

@Lurchi

Ah, o.k. I think I misunderstood you then.:D

Many people must realize that the plot by Stauffenberg wasn't the only attempt on Hitlers life. There where a total of 15 attempts to kill him and all failed. I do know that both of the restiance movments (the White Rose, and the Military Restiance) had at one point joined each other but never worked together because they didn't understand each others plans. The main reason why Stauffenberg's plan failed was manily casued by where the bomb was suposed to be planted(inside the Wolves Lair) and where it was planted(the Conferance Hut). If the plan had gone right and the bomb was planted in the Wolves Lair as planned Hitler would have been dead or wounded enough so that another would have to take his place. I also must ask the question why didn't the German Restiance contact the the Allies and get help from them, as the British had a plot to kill Hitler as well. Or why didn't the civilian population and the military rise up to overthrow Hitler?

Firstly, I just don't like the idea of Tom Cruise getting his Xenu-tentacles into such as an interesting subject.

Secondly, I don't think much would have necessarily changed had Hitler been assassinated in -44, or even earlier. Not that they shouldn't have tried, they did manage to kill off Heydrich. Although that led to a resurgence of violence against all Czechs.

just saw it...amazing movie i thought...:up: very detailed...though yes, the fact it was primarily in english, did take away a little, but hey, most if not all in that movie are english/american actors, compared to das boot with pretty much a all german cast. I'm still a little bummed however that field marshall rommel wasn't in the movie, nor any mention of him in it...if memory serves me correct he did have a very small role or atleast was apart of a conspiracy to kill hitler. but overall a very good flick. heck it got my brother lookin through my WWII, and history books,

No problem - it was all more or less unfounded speculation by me anyway ... ;)

It's a shame more films aren't done about the numerous assassination plots against Hitler. I went to see Valkyrie yesterday, and I was highly impressed with its historical accuracy and recreation of Germany circa 1944.

The Third Reich's Funniest Assassination Plots:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news...r-valkyrie.php

Saw it today. I agree, amazing film. :up: Even though I knew the outcome, it was tense. All the actors were first rate, and I tip my hat to Cruise. He played Stauffenberg with a lot of quiet dignity and force. And the scenes where the conspirators launched Operation Valkyrie, thinking Hilter was dead, are really terrific. Two groups fighting for power, what they must do to secure the backing of the army (men with rifles) and what the army men have to face, which group to back--do you support those you believe are in the right, or those you believe will ulitmately triumph....

Certainly a movie to see.

Yeah i watched it last night but mine was a downloaded version quality was a bit crappy in places yet i will go out and buy the dvd when it comes out later in the new year now that i know its worth paying for :) The documentary i saw few years back had a slightly different outcome at the end. He was hung up with piano wire. In this one he was shot.

I think he got shot in real life.

From the little that I know, I believe you are correct Shroeder-Stauffenberg was shot in real life. He and a few othe co-conspirators were taken out and quickly shot soon after being captured.

Later, some of the other conspirators were hung with piano wire and filmed. The film was later shown to Hitler.

gen.Fromm ordered to shoot them when he realised that the plot was unsuccessful. He thought he would stay uncovered.How wrong he was... The rest was hanged as said above after a "trial" where von Witzleben had to hold his trousers in hands coz refused of a belt or those...you know what....And this famous quot. from Freisler: Herr Witzleben, what are you doing with your pants, ffs?

Just went and saw the film. To be honest, I was quite impressed. The sets were fantastic, and I was even impressed by Cruise's performance. The film did a great job of conveying the tension of the time. And, despite the fact that I knew the outcome, it kept me feeling as though I didn't.

As for the gripe about it being in English, I've been of the view that I'd always rather watch a film in my native language instead of reading subtitles/hearing a dub. The intricacy of events seems lost when mere language becomes a detail of focus, IMO.

You forget the concentration camps, which would have been closed down under the new regime. You also forget the fanatic resistance put up in all of Europe, the mass executions under the NS governmet commited within the army and the ppl and last but not least thousands of Hitler youth and Volkssturm that perished for nothing. All these losses could have been cut down dramatically had the resistance been successfull, not to speak of the symbolism behind a german resistance movement overthrowing the NS regime. All together that would have made a "huge" difference compared to the utter human and moral defeat by the Nazis and probably would have saved millions.

Lurchi was not talking about the hard facts of the outcome, but about a tactical and strategic strenghening of the western allies. Would it have been the west capturing Berlin the cards in Europe and the upcoming cold war would have been dramatically shifted in favor of the allies within Europe. The west allies pulled back out of the already occupied areas mostly because they expected a part of Berlin in exchange, which they got. The russians not capturing Berlin would have been a catastrophic propagandistic loss for the USSR and weakend their position in post war negotiations.

I think you overestimate Hitler's power to control the "whole system"-I mean KZ etc. Don't forget what Himmler did-prisoners for him were only a commodity that could be traded for sth...e.g. trucks. I doubt the KZ would have been closed. It was not only Hitler's will to treat particular kind of people(without and negative aspect here)in the ways we know. Many people(read-officials)benefited from that state. Blaming only Hitler is kinda specific for some nation but I guess it is better to stop here.
actually I guess there was a race for Berlin-at least after reading J.Toland's book I got this impression. Especially Patton wanted to get the city.

http://www.moreorless.au.com/heroes/stauffenberg.html


Not a bad film IMHO.....a lot better than I initially feared.

they have read too much about Canaris.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...t/canaris.html