You are mad at this. It isn't a requirement to rub one out over war movies and offer nothing but gushing praise over men in uniforms to be an American.

I did offer gushing praise over the military until I went and saw firsthand what it was like. Sorry to break it to people but it's the scum of the country going in. From MEPs to basic training I was surrounded by gang bangers, thugs, white trash, hicks, morons, you name it. The only college poeple were ones who went broke and got kicked out of home by the family.

I even helped recruiters for awhile. I had that all American 6 foot tall white guy thing going. I asked the recruiters if we were going to go near a college to recruit smarter people. They laughed at me and said "hell no, we are going to the hood and the trailer parks". That we did.

It's the same in any army the world over. You think the nations best and brightest are maning the machine guns and going out on patrol? Nope, they are the people who got fired from McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

Skybird, I agree with a lot of what you said. I could be wrong, but it seems that you share my quest to look at things as how they really are, versus through a red or blue lense.

That being said, I do find it infuriating when one denigrates our military. The so-called "refuse" of our nation effectively operates some of the most high-tech equipment known to man. The efficiency of the US military is unrivaled in history. That being said, this so-called "refuse" still puts their lives on the line for their nation on a daily basis.

I'd like to see subchaser12 live in a USA without its military. I'd like to see the nature of his dissent after he posts it using his freedoms picked from his Freedom Tree.

No, but to be American is to use the freedoms granted and maintained by our fighting men and women.

Appreciating that isn't "rubbing one out" - it's understanding history and world affairs.For some reason, I doubt this.

The Basic Training program your parole officer assigned to you doesn't count as military, by the way.Silly me. I forgot that there was nothing more technical to the military than manning machine guns. Which makes me again wonder if you were really ever in the military, and if so, what the nature of your discharge was....

You just said earlier "I was going to be mad at this but I won't". Now you find it infuriating. You are a liar too. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

I agree, we do have the most high tech military equipment on the plant. What is your point? We pick fights with countries like Vietnam and Iraq and we have to go toe to toe with ****ty M-16s. Our troops are loaded with so much body armor and gear they can't run any distance. No wonder the Hajis can run away at will. Despite our lazer guided this, and nuclear that most of the fighting is still done with small arms you could find at a gun show in America. We are geared for a conventional war. How useful are our amazing nuclear subs in Iraq? How really wonderfully useful were our 3,000+ nuclear warheads in Vietnam?

Ok the nightvision is good and the airstrikes are good. So is the artillery, but except for the nightvision, wars haven't changed much since World War 2.

Besides if our military is as hot as you say how do you explain Blackwater USA and all the contractors? Why isn't the good ol American soldier good enough to protect the important people? They know as well as I do the military is a bunch of boneheads. Yes blackwater is mostly ex-military minus one important aspect, the military.

Ol Paul Bremer didn't want Timy whitetrash from Nowhere TN covering his asss in the warzone did he? He knows better.

I was going to be mad at a particular post, but decided against it.

I DO find it infuriating when someone denigrades our military which is a POSITION (which doesn't neccessarily apply to you).

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

But, hey ... everyone is a liar to you. It's easier to think that then to have to wrap your noodle around something complex, I suppose.

Bad Conduct Discharge. There ain't no shame in my game. Apparently they don't like it when you bang officers wives and knock NCO's teeth out. :rock:

That BCD really did pay for itself when they started calling up IRR (ready reservse) people when Vietraq started. Guess who didn't get a call, RE-4 re-enlistment code baby! I get to keep my legs, arms, face and sanity. Plus no Depleted Uranium air for Subchaser12.

I doubt it...

...but if so, you sound more like the "hicks, thugs" etc. than the people you say make up the military. Idiot.

You deny it. You know as well as I do adultry is still illegal in the military. People still get jailed and booted over it.

Oh yes, I became a total thug when I was in. You can't hang out with those people for long without becoming one.

You know what they say, dance with the devil and the devil don't chamge, the devil changes you.

Sure, buddy ... everyone believes you... :rotfl:

Heartwarming you can't imagine me being anything other than "Soldier of the Year" with an Honorable Discharge. I'm touched.

Actually, imagining you being a "soldier" is what I don't believe...

...that, and a certain detail you mentioned that makes it all seem a little, say, far-fetched.

I'll leave it at that. The reader can decide.

PS: Getting bored with this back and forth. You can have the last word (which I'm sure you delude yourself into thinking that somehow you've "won" something).

Personally, I believe that anyone saying that our military is a "bunch of screwups" is lying when they say that they were in the military. That, and a certain little detail...

Subchases12 and Aramike, you both really need to take a break and walk away from the computer a bit. This back and forth between you two is getting old.

HunterICX

Good, good ... you're bringing up facts to base your debate upon.Violence isn't a "Christian" or "Muslim" issue.

But, mathematically speaking, in Iraq Muslims outnumber Christians FAR MORE than 10 to 1. So, if proportionate, the argument would be "how many Christians is a Muslim worth?".

Furthermore, if we wish to be honest with ourselves as to why the violence is occurring, we must first isolate the violent events and then identify the causes. Within the framework of this discussion regarding Christianity in Iraq, one must identify what precipitated the violance against Christians. While two million Muslims may have left simply because they wanted to be in a safer place generally, did the 200K Christians leave for the same reason? Or, perhaps did they leave because the violence perpetuated upon them was a direct result of religious persecution?

Think about it: if bombs going off in Iraqi markets are killing 100 people, 95 of them may be Muslim. That would be demographically consistant. However, if a bomb goes off in a Christian church killing 100 people, 100 of the victims will likely be Christian - demographically inconsistant.

Personally, I believe that ANY violence against someone based upon their belief system is bigotted, and unneeded. I just don't see Christians attacking Muslims based on their faith. However, I do see the Jihad declared, the other way around.

Why do people find it easier to blame Christians than Muslim extremists?

Crusade or not, I would not be wearing the red Santa suit.....easy target:o

Mikhayl, good post. Now that's the kind of stuff I like to read ... anything that makes me think is awesome in my book.That's very true. I agree with it completely.

However, Sunni vs. Shi'ite is similar to Catholic vs. Protestant in a sense. In any case, such a vast majority of the violence in Iraq is perpetrated in an untargetted fashion that one must conclude that it occurs in service to itself. In other words, bombers are blowing sh*t up because they want to blow sh*t up. Yet, the fact that Muslims have left the country demographically disproportionate to Christians would seem to suggest the violence against Christians was more direct and targetted.I've gotta say, this is anecdotal at best. There's probably 100s of people from all different political perspectives here, and I would bet that only a small percentage of them actually post. So it would be impossible to make any inference one way or the other.

Honestly, while I haven't been here nearly as long as you, I can make two observations. The first is that I haven't seen a single Muslim-hating comment. Instead, I've seen Muslim-extremist hating comments.

Secondly, I've seen comments hating Christianity ... not Christian-extremist, but Christianity in general.

Its odd what is tolerated and what is scorned.

I agree. That's why I care about both groups and took exception to the argument of "how many Christians...".

It ultimately comes to the question of whether or not one believes in universal human rights (which I do).

"Good kids dress up as elves, naughty kids get water torture."

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/WO...candle.cnn.jpg

Man, what a freaky looking Santa. Looks like a gimp from some s/m-party. Not that I have personal knowledge of such things.

I'm not sure that both positions are mutually exclusive.

I'm curious. If Germany doesn't get enough Muslim Iraqi immigrants does that mean they'll turn Christian Iraqis away?

Probably Santa knows the location of baaaaddd and eeevvviiilllll Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction?