It's like this. You know how we laugh at despots in Africa that get in power and use the government coffers like a personal bank account? Well this is all Bush is doing here. We laugh when dictators print more money to stimulate the economy, but that's all America does. They just fire up the printing presses. Now they fire up the computers actually because all that "money" on the books doesn't exist. The economy is melting down because all the chickens are comming home to roost at once and that money is just a fake number in a computer with nothing behind it.

The Bush supporters want to blame congress but that ignores the fact that the executive branch has made itself much more powerful over the last 8 years thanks to the Bush regime.

August said it's a democrat congress, it is but he isn't saying that the simple majority they have is not enough to override the executive.

Now Neal is right about the only thing left in America is Starbucks, McDonalds and Wal-Mart but bailing out one small manufacturing sector doesn't solve this. What about all the other thousands upon thousand of American factories that lie shutterd all over the country? America stopped making the things it consumed years ago and used credit to buy the things they needed for consumption from other countries. Now other countries are tired of funding America's leisure on credit that looks like we won't be able to pay.

Many experts warned of this but were ignored because it wasn't a politically good things to say.

Wow, you do it in every thread. Clearly a pattern.

Umm, as has been said, the President-Elect who's praises you've been singing supports Bush on this one.

Thanks for proving that it's not what Bush does that you hate, it's just Bush. Shallow.

By the way, I completely disagree with the bailout. I've outlined the only plan I would support in another thread. I just HAVE to hate it because Obama supports it. HA!

I like how ol poor Bush never has anyhing to do with it. ha ha

I agree with subchaser here. This isn't Congress abrogating anything. It is Bush going around them in a blatant example of "executive authority" that his administration has championed.

PD

Bull. Anything the Executive branch has done in the past is with the approval of both the legislative and the judicial branches of government.

No, what I said is that the Congressional leadership, you know DEMOCRATS?, as well as the man you elected to be the next President both want this to happen, have provided the funds for this to happen, and could seek redress according to the US constitution to block it from happening if they didn't. So saying that it's Bush "taking a dump on America" is hypocritical at best and a bald faced lie at worst. So which is it?

What does your "O-man" tell you do do?

Read the emphasized part again guys...

Then i expect we'll see this issue land in court just as soon as someone files suit.

What no one seems to want to acknowledge is that Bush is just doing the Democratic Congressional leaderships dirty work for them. Obama will do the same thing in February with that extra 4 billion.

From Henry Morgenthau to Henry PaulsonWritten by William F. Jasper Friday, 31 October 2008 00:58
http://www.thenewamerican.com/plugin...icon-chart.gifhttp://www.thenewamerican.com/plugin...icon-small.gifhttp://www.thenewamerican.com/plugin...con-medium.gifhttp://www.thenewamerican.com/plugin...icon-large.gif
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images...423history.jpgThe circumstances of today's $700 billion bailout are eerily similar to those of FDR's New Deal, and today's Pied Pipers are playing the same bipartisan, power-grabbing tune.
"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury Department spokeswoman told Forbes.com concerning how the figure of $700 billion was arrived at for the financial bailout package. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

Choosing a "really large number" helps, of course, if one is trying to convince the American public that the nation is facing a really large emergency, and that the government must be given really large powers and really large sums to deal with the emergency. Which is why governments love emergencies and crises, whether real or imagined.

Over the past few weeks, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has led a team of Henny-Penny alarmists sowing panic over the troubled financial markets. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling, and only massive emergency government intervention can save us," they claimed in so many words.

The panic strategy worked, and the Henny Pennies have won — for now. On Friday, October 3, despite massive public opposition to the bailout (with members of Congress and media organizations reporting that calls were running 100 to 1 against), the House of Representatives followed the Senate's lead and approved the so-called Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which may prove to be one of the biggest wealth-transfer schemes in history. On October 4, Bloomberg.com reported:
The House approved the measure 263-171 yesterday, four days after rejecting an earlier version by 228 to 205. The bill's defeat caused a 778-point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, prompting dozens of lawmakers to switch their vote on the package, the government's largest step into the markets since Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal.
Another "New Deal"?

The Bloomberg reference above comparing the current bailout to FDR's New Deal is chilling to all who are even remotely familiar with the tyrannical powers and policies that accompanied the Roosevelt revolution.

Some important insights into that important era have been provided by Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, whom FDR affectionately referred to as "Henny Penny," a moniker which was then picked up by the press and affixed to the treasury secretary. In his private diary, "Henny Penny" told of the strange daily ritual known as the "bedside conference" that greatly affected the economy of the entire nation and, indeed, much of the world. According to Secretary Morgenthau, he and Jesse Jones, head of the federal Reconstruction Finance Corporation, would meet in the morning in the president's bedroom, where Roosevelt ate his breakfast in bed from a tray. The three of them would then proceed to set the daily price of gold. Here's how Morgenthau described the process in his diary: "The actual price of gold on any given day made little difference. The amounts settled on were generally arbitrary. One day, for instance, the bedside conference decided on a rise of 21 c[ents]; 'It's a lucky number,' the President remarked, 'because it's three times seven.'"

Morgenthau commented: "If anybody ever knew how we set the gold price through a combination of lucky numbers and so forth, I think they would really be frightened."

Contrary to Henny Penny Morgenthau's diary claim, the price of gold on any given day made a great deal of difference — which was the whole point of the daily bedside conference. Having already confiscated all gold from the American people by executive fiat, FDR's Brain Trust then proceeded to steal the people's wealth through the hidden confiscatory tax of inflation. The great gold robbery had been effected by Roosevelt's Executive Order 6102, of April 5, 1933, which, invoking the ongoing "national emergency," declared: "All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or a branch or agency thereof ... all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates."

Refusal to comply could earn one a $10,000 fine (a king's ransom in 1933 dollars) and/or 10 years in the federal slammer. Upon delivering their gold, owners were paid the official price of $20.67 per ounce of gold. However, FDR and his bedside conferees then immediately began upping the price of gold, thus devaluing the dollars they had just paid to the former gold owners. Before long, they had pegged gold at $35 per ounce, by which point they had already robbed the American public of more than 40 percent of the value of their cash and savings. Reveling in their new-found powers, the Brain Trusters took great delight in dictating not only the price of gold, but of virtually everything else, as well.

It had all started under circumstances eerily similar to those we face today, and to the same bipartisan, power-grabbing tune the pipers are playing now. The Emergency Bank Act of 1933 was whisked through Congress sight unseen on a voice vote. House Minority Leader Bertrand H. Snell (R-N.Y.) urged Republicans to vote for Roosevelt's plan because "the house is burning down, and the President of the United States says this is the way to put the fire out." Rep. Ernest Lundeen of the Minnesota Farm Labor Party, one of the few who refused to cave in to FDR's legislation-by-hysteria campaign, rebuked his fellow members of Congress for their willingness to pass a bill they had not seen, read, or debated. He noted that the bill had been "driven through the House with cyclonic speed," and argued: "We must not allow ourselves to be swept off our feet by hysteria."

But hysteria triumphed and arbitrary power was unleashed in a profusion of new government agencies exercising dangerous and unconstitutional powers: the Office of Price Administration (OPA), the Office of Production Management (OPM), the National Recovery Administration (NRA), the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA), the Surplus Commodity Corporation (SCC), etc. FDR's new hydra-headed FedGov monster, led by the likes of Henny Penny Morgenthau, General Hugh Johnson, Leon Henderson, Henry Wallace, and Rexford Guy Tugwell, proceeded to redesign and restructure America according to the collectivist thinking of the times. They all were enamored of the supposed wonders produced by central planning under Stalin and Mussolini, and could barely contain themselves in anticipation of the opportunity to exercise the same god-like powers.

Like Morgenthau, FDR's Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, through her diary entries, provided a revealing and disturbing glimpse into the inner workings of the Roosevelt Brain Trust. "At the first meeting of the Cabinet after the President took office in 1933," wrote Perkins, "the financier and advisor to Roosevelt, Bernard Baruch, and Baruch's friend, General Hugh Johnson, who was to become the head of the National Recovery Administration, came in with a copy of a book by Gentile, the Italian Fascist theoretician, for each member of the Cabinet, and we all read it with care."

Of course, admissions such as those by Morgenthau and Perkins did not publicly surface until years after the fact. Likewise, it was decades later when the secret, decoded NSA transcripts known as the Venona documents were released, confirming that high-level Roosevelt administration officials and some of FDR's most intimate confidants were actually Soviet agents. Like the Henny Penny of childhood fable, Morgenthau had his Turkey Lurkey, Goosey Poosey, and Cocky Locky. As it turns out, his policies aimed at nationalizing and socializing our economy had, for the most part, been hatched by his right-hand man, communist agent Harry Dexter White. And the AAA, which sent an army of bureaucrats onto America's farms to confiscate, slaughter, and bury millions of pigs and cattle and millions of tons of grains and produce while much of America went hungry — well, those grand schemes under Agriculture Secretary Henry Wallace (an ardent and professed socialist) were the brainchildren of actual Soviet agents in the Agriculture Department such as Lee Pressman, Nathan Witt, Donald Hiss, Victor Perlo, and John Abt.

All of which proves the wisdom of our Founding Fathers against succumbing to appeals to concentrate power — even in (rather, especially in) times of supposed emergency. For those who make such appeals, once unbound from the chains of the Constitution, invariably show by their actions to be holding to a secret agenda far different from the beneficent one they had professed. "To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress," cautioned Thomas Jefferson, "is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." Or, as George Washington similarly warned: "Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness."

Is there a hidden agenda behind the appeals for arbitrary power by Henry "Henny Penny" Paulson, Ben "Turkey Lurkey" Bernanke, George "Goosey Poosey" Bush, and their bipartisan barnyard menagerie choir? Of that you can be certain. And as with Congress in 1933, you can be certain that virtually none of the 263 members of Congress who voted for the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 on October 3 had even read, let alone studied and digested, the 451-page piece of legislation and the "boundless fields of power" it has opened to licentious abuse.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/american/473

Say hello to the us.gov cannon shell before it tears you to pizza toppings.

There is no way in hell and I repeat NO WAY IN HELL a violent revolution will EVER work again. You cant buy stingers you cant buy M1s you cant buy longbows... And you can't buy equipment.

Want to do something about it? Publicly pledge to never buy American again. That is the best you can do as it seems Obama is just stepping up to enjoy the power Bush carved for the central gov.

What are you talking about? The bailout failed in congress. Your spin is useless.

I'd say that would be punishing your fellow citizens but won't do much against the central government. They'll just get their money from taxing imports.

That does not matter. The president is acting on his own. Congress shut down the bailout bill period.

Yes they could turn around and say "Oh hell no" or "Oh hell yes!" but that has nothing to do with the fact that president Bush is following through with a threat to do the bailout on his ground if the repubs in congress failed to support the bailout.

And risk alienating the world and Wal-Mart?

Very funny!

You can't just slap a tariff down in the middle of a recession. It is hostile and will only be met with tariffs from the other side which will harm American business more.

Wal-Mart is of course partially a joke but not too much so considering how many Americans will go nuts if prices jumped at Wal-mart.

The bailout failed in Congress but Congress doesn't have to release the money for purposes other than what it was appropriated for. They can freeze it if they want to but we both know that they won't because both the Congressional leadership and the President-Elect have both publicly stated they are in favor of it.

As I said what Bush is doing is their dirty work. Am I wrong?

Frustration brother, frustration. As far as boycotting my bretheren goes, there ain't much left out there that's domestically made. You have to look far and wide for it anymore. the other thing to do is what this gentleman suggests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFKGrmsBDk

It is simple. Instead of buying a Ford or GM buy Toyota or even better a Mini or something.

I have no loyalty to the US car industry. They have stopped at little to prevent technology from rocking the boat over the years. They deserve to perish and boycotting them is the fastest way to end these bailouts (After they are back for their 5th)

Since I had to shut my business down back in May, I haven't found any work. So buying a new car is out. I will have to hook up the boat to the little BroncoII and head back to Michigan as that's the only place I have family left. And the y don't want me to wind up on the streets. So hoefully I can land a driving job there. I have 6 years of mountain driving in commercial vehicles in all sorts of weather from blistering heat to blinding blizzaeds. And not one blemish mark on my driving record. And the boat wasn't new either. It is a 1966 aluminum runabout.

I think Ford declined as they asked the CEO or one of the bigwigs if they would be willing to work for 1 dollar for the year, and the response was no. I don't see what the problem is, the guy made like 21 million last year.

The Republicans in Congress shut it down. Good for them. The Democrats wanted to shove it through.

It's too bad Bush went with the Democrats on this one.

The unions own BO, when he gets in he'll do whatever the unions want.:nope:

I think you better go look at how much this economy does manufacture - you are wrong.

However, Bush is ticking me off with this bailout. The bankruptcy courts are designed to deal with this sort of crap, not my tax dollar! The airlines went bankrupt, and guess what? They are still there too.

The auto industry just made up for its slumping sales alright. They just got the biggest sale in history.

-S